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  • #31
    Quantum Physics/Religion same/same, either way you have to have faith?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Lerrrr View Post
      I honestly think both sides of this debate need to realise what an enormous term "religion" is. Trying to assert something (whether positive or negative) of religion is like trying to assert something about "humanity" or "shapes". There are a relatively tiny number of things which all members of that set have in common, and many more differences. I have read a lot of replies from atheists here saying "religion is X" or "religion causes Y". Look, religion is not inherently good or bad. Whatever it becomes, it does so when it is practiced by people, and so its "goodness" or "badness" is decided there.....not by some abstract nature you believe it possesses. I am a Christian - I also fully believe in evolution, big bang theory, am a lover of science, fully respect the likes of Richard Dawkins and his contributions to evolutionary biology......and believe the world has been around significantly longer than 6,000 years. Yes, I agree that when religious people choose prayer over medical science this is a very negative and dangerous thing. And those individuals are responsible for that choice, and its negativity. Not all religious people behave that way, so it makes no sense to ascribe that type of behaviour to "religion", you know?
      Because guns don't kill people, people kill people, amirite?

      Trouble is, a gun (usually) usually isn't a motivating factor. Religion very often is. Creationists lie to and manipulate people and try to subvert education in the US (and, sometimes, in other countries, albeit with less success) solely because of their religion. They are ignorant and dishonest because of their religion. Christians, Muslims, and Jews have been killing each other for millenia because of their religion. Gays have to fight for equal rights because of religion, because of attitudes and ideas ingrained into society by religion. Anything you can tack "because of their religion" onto can be rightly ascribed to "religion."

      The same can't be said for atheism, because atheism is not a motivating factor. BionicDance on youtube doesn't make her videos because of her atheism. She makes them because of other people's religion--religion which intrudes upon her life and suppresses her rights as an individual. Thunderf00t and AronRa don't make their videos because of atheism either, but because of other people's religion which subverts their efforts in education and in some cases even threatens them personally.

      ---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 AM ----------

      Originally posted by CAPiTALS View Post
      Quantum Physics/Religion same/same, either way you have to have faith?
      Faith is an unfounded assumption held without reason and defended against all reason. So, no, not really.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by amachan View Post
        Because guns don't kill people, people kill people, amirite?

        Trouble is, a gun (usually) usually isn't a motivating factor. Religion very often is. Creationists lie to and manipulate people and try to subvert education in the US (and, sometimes, in other countries, albeit with less success) solely because of their religion. They are ignorant and dishonest because of their religion. Christians, Muslims, and Jews have been killing each other for millenia because of their religion. Gays have to fight for equal rights because of religion, because of attitudes and ideas ingrained into society by religion. Anything you can tack "because of their religion" onto can be rightly ascribed to "religion."

        The same can't be said for atheism, because atheism is not a motivating factor. BionicDance on youtube doesn't make her videos because of her atheism. She makes them because of other people's religion--religion which intrudes upon her life and suppresses her rights as an individual. Thunderf00t and AronRa don't make their videos because of atheism either, but because of other people's religion which subverts their efforts in education and in some cases even threatens them personally.
        Saying that religion is a "motivating factor" in no way affects the truth of my statement though, does it? For something to be a "motivating factor" it just has to have value in some degree to a person, and even then it can motivate them for good or bad. You surely aren't suggesting that anything which has value to a person is a bad thing? Creationists do NOT try to subvert education solely because of their religion. Their religion is Christianity and so is mine, and I do not try to subvert anybodies education.......ergo it stands to reason that the cause of that subversion cannot simply be "religion", but is in fact the individual making the choice of how to practice it. Religion is not sentient, it has no will of its own independent of the individuals who practice it. You suggest that anything to which "because of their religion" can be tacked can be rightly ascribed to religion.......problem is that I completely disagree with the validity of most of the things you tacked it onto. Sure, if you want to deny free will, and completely negate an individuals responsibility for their own choices, then you can tack "because of their religion" onto just about anything they do. But personally I think that is a deliberate cop-out. It is just a way for a person with a prejudice against religion to try to lump all religious people into the same box, which is completely irrational.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by amachan View Post
          Faith is an unfounded assumption held without reason and defended against all reason. So, no, not really.
          What is Quantum Physics?

          Quantum physics is a branch of science that deals with discrete, indivisible units of energy called quanta as described by the Quantum Theory. There are five main ideas represented in Quantum Theory:

          1. Energy is not continuous, but comes in small but discrete units.
          2. The elementary particles behave both like particles and like waves.
          3. The movement of these particles is inherently random.
          4. It is physically impossible to know both the position and the momentum of a particle at the same time. The more precisely one is known, the less precise the measurement of the other is.
          5. The atomic world is nothing like the world we live in

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          • #35
            Religion demands evidence from science while providing none of its own.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Lerrrr View Post
              Saying that religion is a "motivating factor" in no way affects the truth of my statement though, does it? For something to be a "motivating factor" it just has to have value in some degree to a person, and even then it can motivate them for good or bad. You surely aren't suggesting that anything which has value to a person is a bad thing? Creationists do NOT try to subvert education solely because of their religion. Their religion is Christianity and so is mine, and I do not try to subvert anybodies education.......ergo it stands to reason that the cause of that subversion cannot simply be "religion", but is in fact the individual making the choice of how to practice it. Religion is not sentient, it has no will of its own independent of the individuals who practice it. You suggest that anything to which "because of their religion" can be tacked can be rightly ascribed to religion.......problem is that I completely disagree with the validity of most of the things you tacked it onto. Sure, if you want to deny free will, and completely negate an individuals responsibility for their own choices, then you can tack "because of their religion" onto just about anything they do. But personally I think that is a deliberate cop-out. It is just a way for a person with a prejudice against religion to try to lump all religious people into the same box, which is completely irrational.
              specifically
              Originally posted by Lerrrr View Post
              Creationists do NOT try to subvert education solely because of their religion.
              The creation museum teaches people -
              that the earth was existent before the stars
              that the earth is 6,000 years old
              to actively disparage human reason (science) that disagrees with "gods word"

              so, to me, it appears that creationists actively subvert education... and they do so (in their own explanations) due to their religion.

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              • #37
                Religion has never really sat well with me. Gods will as a one size fits all excuse for when faiths are tested, and the disregard for accountable evidence that disputes the likely-hood of His/her existence. I have however found a "faith", that need not be followed blindly, and in my experience encourages you to question your perceptions and accept new "truths"..

                Buddhism turns modern Judeo-Christian ideas on their heads. In Buddhism, experience and reasoning come first, and then scripture.


                "If modern science presents good evidence that a Buddhist idea is wrong, he will accept the modern science" - The Dalai Lama
                (he gives the example of the Earth moving around the sun, which runs counter to Buddhist scripture)


                Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future, It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology;
                it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.


                "Buddhism is the only religion able to cope with modern scientific needs" Einstein

                Buddhism... The gentoo of religion
                Last edited by SUpper; November 10, 2016, 07:49 PM.

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                • #38
                  There are two ways to achieve true potential of humanity:

                  Destroy religion completely and build new society without need for religion. Attempt was made in Soviet Union and was nearly succesful but as Soviet Union dissolved there is no hope for that to happen in reasonable time unless someone with balls will rule most of the world.

                  Transform current religion into religion of mankind. It means that poeple should pray and do whatever is best for the humanity to live instead of praying to someone that could not exist and waste all that time.

                  Science is coming to the part where poeple won't die because of their age. What the "God" will have to offer then?

                  That is my opinion. Please no h8 i appr8 ;)

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                  • #39
                    Carl Sagan is Jesus Christ. It's all good, folks.

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                    • #40
                      Religion is man made ...science isn't

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                      • #41
                        I think this answers all questions :
                        Richard Dawkins - Science works bitches! - YouTube

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                        • #42
                          anyone familiar with the whole "intelligent design" thing? it seems like it is an effort to haphazardly somehow fuse religion and science.

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                          • #43
                            You know, I try to divide these two things. I know that some people live with faith and this is their impetus. I live with science and I really like to learn new things. However, it is difficult for me to read American books because I always need to convert 160 cm to feet for better understanding. Thankfully, there are many good sites for it

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