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  • Religion versus Science

    For better clarification, please read this article: The Nightmare of Christianity | The Nation

    I don't care what people believe in regards to the origins of man, because any explanation has no day-to-day relevance. I get fed up when religion willingly ignores medical science through faith healers, the power of prayer alone, and just claiming anything as simply "an act of the devil". These examples make me out to be anti-Christian, but other beliefs are equally guilty (regrettably, I am not knowledgeable of others except for Scientology being against certain medicines, but I leave that to you to add more to this discussion in that area). Religion is not a bad thing, but like anything else, it needs a more moderate approach than what many zealots allow. Any thoughts?

  • #2
    Religion is bad and good; it all depends on the individual that follows it.
    For those that find religion as a positive and essential part of their lives argue that religion teaches strong values, morality and posses the "truth"
    Now, truth is a big concept. For something to posses the absolute truth it means it holds all answers to any potential questions, right?
    Otherwise it would not be "whole" thus not "absolute"

    This why the Christian church jumps in quickly to offer their own interpretation, so they can make it THE interpretation.
    They do this by either validating or invalidating. When they can't find a proper religious logic that aligns to their doctrine, what is left?
    Blame it on that which can only be accepted through faith (blind faith if you ask me).

    It is bad and we don't want you to believe on it? Created by the devil, Satan is trying to tempt you and your soul will be lost if you follow it.
    It is good and we can't explain it but we want credit for it because it will serve as proof of our unmatchable power? Miracle, prayers were answered.

    Regardless, there is one thing that they will keep telling you to do: pray. If you pray, then Satan will stop tempting you. If you pray, miracles will keep occuring.
    There's a simple formula: you praying=their power being reinforced

    Now, I do not mean to offend individuals that follow Christianity. I admit that I disagree with some core beliefs (such as using the bible for guidance), but my main bias is against power abuse from the Church.

    I am a social science individual, it pisses me off when the Church tries to meddle in social policy issues.
    Especially healthcare *hint hint*

    Anyways, I could keep ranting forever, but thank you for the interesting information.

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    • #3
      You could most definitely keep going forever.

      Science for me, any day over religion. I have been to church a few times only to hear phrases like, "We must repent all sin for at this time we are not worthy to kneel at the feet of Jesus and eat the crumbs landed by his feet" (something along those lines).

      I permanently feel like I'm being judged.

      At least with science you know where you stand, you don't spend your entire life hoping you have been good enough to "maybe" have a good afterlife.

      When you are dead ... you are dead ... simple

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      • #4
        As a scientist I must say rather harshly that individuals that do not believe in evolution are too stupid to live.

        Sorry if this offends (not really)

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        • #5
          If we are to reach humanity's true potential then we must abandon mysticism and the supernatural. Instead we must focus on empirical evidence and reason. With claims of the supernatural we must use the same system of proof that all other claims are subjected to. Is the claim extraordinary? Then the supporting evidence must be equally extraordinary. A book from the bronze age simply will not do as evidence and should not do for any thinking person.

          Religion was a means for primative peoples to explain a very confusing universe. Existence is puzzling and religion was the best tool long ago. However, man has come a long way and new tools have been created to give a more complete answer to universal questions. Science, empirism and secular humanism are the new tools. It is now up to us to adapt or die. Will we throw off the shackles of mental slavery that religion imposes onto us and allow ourselves to unlock humanity's true potential? Or will we continue to allow mysticism, superstition and the worship of the supernatural to enfeeble our minds?

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          • #6
            Science or Religion does not necessarily have to be an either/or question. If you're interested to see arguments for this, do a google search on Michael Ruse (philosopher). I wrote a philosophy paper regarding one of his lectures. He basically argues that you can be Christian and still believe in evolution, science, etc. Granted, you cant interpret the bible literally and do this. But then, you cant do much of anything if you interpret the bible literally.

            I am an atheist but I respect other people's faiths (as long as they do not try to impose their faith onto social policy or on anyone else, which unfortunately happens all the time).

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            • #7
              I'm really annoyed by this religion vs science crap. Both are right or both are wrong. There's no A or B. I think that both are right ( maybe not 100% ) and that the causes of conflict here ( with both of them) are due to ignorance. I see them going hand in hand ( in mainstream view) in the future.

              Originally posted by Blastradius
              Granted, you cant interpret the bible literally and do this
              That's the biggest mistake. Discerning what is literalal meaning, what isn't and finding the correct interpretation for the non-literal are key. About science, it isn't perfect. That's very clear. Look how many times the important views are changed by some new discovery ( so dont be so sure that what is accepted is actually true ) and there are still many things it doesn't recognise ( officially) . They should complement each other.

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              • #8
                I always see that people put religion and science distinguised from each other. But could also be together at the same time
                A few examples.

                Remember the Quran was created more than 1400 years ago and some things could only be discovered by man with technology
                Long time people thought the sun was moving around the earth, but that wasn't true after proven by technology, but the Quran already said what the technology said today..
                (And he is the one who created the night, daylight, sun and the moon, all swimming in an orbit). (Quran, The Prophets: 33).


                Just like on Embryology.
                Keith L. Moore is a professor emeritus in the division of anatomy (department of surgery), former Chair of anatomy from 1974 to 1984 and associate dean for Basic Medical Sciences (Faculty of Medicine) at the University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He has also worked at the King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Moreover, he is a founding member of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists (AACA). He was President of the AACA between 1989 and 1991. He is most known for his textbooks on the subjects of anatomy and human embryology.He has co-written (with professor Arthur F. Dalley II) Clinically Oriented Anatomy, which is the most popular English-language anatomy textbook in the world, used by scientists, doctors, physiotherapists and students worldwide. The book is especially popular because of its 'blue boxes' - passages of text on blue background that relate the classical anatomy to real-world concepts in the diagnosis and treatment of human patients. The book has been translated into multiple languages. He also co-wrote (with professor Anne M. R. Agur) Essential Clinical Anatomy.

                Dr Keith Moore confirms embryology in Quran

                Read the link for more information on that subject, in the Quran you can read how the embryo advanced in staged in very specific details. On this site there are more and more examples, these I gave you all were just a few.

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                • #9
                  Unfortunately I had religion spoonfed to me since a very young age, and I have accepted with very few doubts (except perhaps if God is good why is there suffering), but the missionary (?) at school was never really helpful. She dismissed most of these questions and told me that faith alone would suffice. I actually believed that and told myself that these questions would somehow be answered when I go to heaven. One time I read the God Delusion (yes, I know it's not very well argued) which inspired to look further into my beliefs. Then I decided that lots of important questions could not be answered, or some attempted to answer them but in fact avoided the issue altogether.

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                  • #10
                    Why is there suffering? Well actually everyone is put here on earth to test how they will live. Many people are doing drugs, drinking alcohol and are greedy between each other. I mean come on, all the wars are about money, a lot of weapons means a lot of money for the banks. They are the only one's who will "profit". In the Quran states that after distress comes relief, you just have to be patient. What if there weren't hard things in life, we wouldn't feel happiness after that right. If there are evil things on this earth, that doesn't mean we have to copy their behaviors.

                    But one thing I agreed with you, that when religion is pushed in your mind then you won't benefit at all, it will only give you negative things in your mind. I found Islam on my own decision, nobody pushed me into it. And i'm glad that happened, the beauty of people is that everyone has the freedom in his mind to make choices. Some people make good decisions and some bad. (Ethics)

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                    • #11
                      As a person who will be on permanent medications forever, I think any religion that says that 'prayer will heal you' is completely out of line, morally wrong, and just plain stupid. I think Christian Science (Another religion I think you're referring to) isn't a real sect of Christianity since a lot of it's theology comes from a book other than the Bible. There are people in almost every religion that take their beliefs too seriously and give a horrible name to their religion.
                      Personally, I'm a very different sort of Christian. I've been shunned and told I'm going to hell for my problems. It also doesn't help that I believe evolution is true and that is was God's way of creation... Thanks for your opinion and thank you for the interesting post.

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                      • #12
                        Didn't CERN recently prove the existence of the "God Particle"?
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          its not really close, i dont get why theres a debate

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                          • #14
                            Science should be defined as the act of the talking pink monkeys inventing systems of measurement then acting as if it is some objective discovery that things fall within them. This "empirical evidence" people constantly go on about are man-made creations as is every field of study; Minute, incomplete, constantly changing and overall insufficient explanations to planetary and universal constructs that our brains arrogantly seem to think we can both understand and preside over. I'm not saying organized religions aren't preposterous or equally man-made because all evidence points to contrary but you know, let's call a spade a spade here. Is there really any difference between me saying the devil is going to infect your soul and turn you into a sinner, then when someone sins point to them and go "See!?" than if I were to tell you that these are five fingers on my hands and together that makes ten? They're both examples of confirmation bias within the field of study you're operating within. And to reiterate a point I glazed over earlier, it's not as if we have these things on lock down and have had them on lock down for ions. I remember being in sixth grade watching a human biology tape from the 60s where they were explaining what each organ does, and when they got to the heart this dude literally said "Well, we don't really know but..." . We're talking 50 years ago, and just consider that as a whole. How many points of view scientifically and mathematically have changed over the last 50 years? Countless. And here we now have scientists talking in certainties when sub-atomic particles disappear and reappear without any certifiable explanation as to why and how that's even happening. It's all so very, very arrogant and silly at the end of the day.

                            Ultimately, I'm not saying don't use science and mathematics to try and measure the universe surrounding us nor am I saying don't put your faith in scripture, but what I am saying is to say one point of view is any more wrong or right is the most socially retarded, counter-productive line of thinking to possibly engage in. We live in a world full of oppressive governments, a small ruling class that controls all the wealth and resources, millions sick, millions impoverished, millions homeless, etc... And some of ya'll are sitting there talking about consciousness EVOLVING to some greater plateau? We can't even stop each other from stealing from and killing one another and ya'll expect that people are just going to throw down their belief systems and hop on this new consciousness bandwagon? We've got profoundly bigger fish to fry before we even get to the point on the checklist of "People Who Believe in Crazy Nonsense" so until then, treat each other equally and allow others to believe what they want to believe. As Ghandi said, be the change you want to see in the world. And I'm pretty sure by that he didn't mean "constantly tell people why their opinions are wrong".

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                            • #15
                              I think they should say that religion is different than science & they don't have a lot in common , like "black" & "lion".& they should stop the constant fighting

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