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  • TSA security measures are useless against any real terrorist.

    If a security checkpoint checked backpacks, but not purses, would this be considered good security? Obviously not. The new body scanners check for things hidden on the body, while ignoring the most obvious place to hide small but deadly items -- the rectum or vagina.

    Given that any person with an IQ above 85 would realize this, its pretty easy to conclude that if serious terrorists really wanted to hijack a plane, current security measures would be next to useless.

    We are told that the 9/11 hijackers were part of a global, well organized, well trained, powerful terrorist group called Al Qeada. You dont have to consult with Alex Jones to understand that there is no such thing as Al Qeada.


    The BBC covered it pretty well (link below). The documentary in the link is called "The power of nightmares", and essentially shows how, for the most part, the "war on terror" was (and is) fighting against the boogeyman. Obviously nutjobs exist, and obviously there is a common IDEA prevalent among islamic extremist types around the world, but there is no global, organized terror network that most people imagine.

    The documentary outlines some of the supposed "terrorists" that were "caught" in the US, and the "evidence" against them, that would not pass a court of law even if Homer Simpson was the Judge, and Peter Griffin the lead juror.


    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...2330319789254#

    Even if their conclusions about the nature of Al Qeada (political creation vs. CIA coovert ops name) are different, the implications for the average person are the same.

    ***

    Such a terrorist organization, along the nature of Al Qeada, doesnt exist, but even if it did, if they really wanted to launch terrorist attacks, there isnt really anything that can be done by the government, any more than the police can prevent someone from committing murder (save a small percentage of lucky cases).

    If there was, in reality, a serious terrorist group determined to hurt the US in any way possible, it would be extremely easy to do so. A few trained commando units... a paltry expenditure, resource-wise, could wreak untold damage, and would be pretty much impossible to stop by the government, since there would be no way to anticipate their moves, unless they were stupid.


    If this global, well organized, well trained, well supplied, determined, intelligent, terrorist organization called "Al Qeada", which was determined to hurt us in any way possible existed, there would be 100s of thousands of dead by now.


    Lettuce be reality. Even PRIOR to 9/11, any intelligent terrorist organization would not pay much heed to commercial jets, since the chance of getting off alive is slim, and continuing to wage war against your enemy is pretty tough when youre dead.

    Not to mention that continuing to myopically focus on commercial jets AFTER 9/11 would be pretty stupid. Whats funny, is that even post-9/11, the MOST LOGICAL means of smuggling weapons onto a plane (rectum and vagina) are no more prevented now than they were before.


    If an organization wanted to as mass casualties as possible, a crowded mall or subway is as good as any. Nerve gas can be made in any basement lab.

    If the goal was systemic terror against the US, well.... let us be rational.... a few trained commando units operating in the US would be virtually impossible to anticipate or do anything about, and after systematic (but not with any pre-planned pattern... as that would be stupid) murder in cities and towns throughout the country, including taking out a smattering city officials, etc that you could, half the country would be scared to go out of their doors.

    Hijacking or stealing private jet is far better, strategically, than a commercial jet, as you can pack it with many tons of explosives, and it would be pretty easy to stay under the radar.

    A semi truck is even better, as its not going to attract any attention unless you were a bumbling nutjob with half a brain.

    ****


    The bottom line is:

    - Al Qeada doesnt exist, and the war on terror in the US and Afghanistan has been a war on an idea.. on shadows. Take it from the BBC.

    - Believing in "the terrorists" in the way that most people do, is irrational, as if they did exists, and were even HALF as big and bad as most people think there are, the entire country would be a battlefield, and whats more, the government really couldnt do anything about it, unless one of them slipped up and was stupid.


    - Statistically, the risk of getting killed by a terrorist is far lower than getting murdered by a thug. Sure, people are scared of going into a dark alleyway, but when people read about a series of homicides in LA, they hardly blink two eyes, unless it was in their neighborhood. But if people read about a series of murders, or even attempted murders by "TERRORISTZZZZZss!!!", everyone in this country tenses up a bit.


    - Lets face it -- if something like al qeada existed, they are either not that malicious, or one of the stupidest and most incompetent groups of people ever to exist.


    - Fearing terrorism is irrational. We are at risk of dying every day, when we step outside our door. A mugger, killer, drunk driver, car accident, gas leak, a freak explosion, a viscous dog, a work accident, any number of freak accidents. Even alone, many of these things are more risky than likelihood of a terrorist attack. Combined, they are far more likely to happen.


    The government cant protect you from a "terrorist", and more than they can from a mugger a killer, or a bad driver.

    - A population of ignorant people and ignorant politicians who can justify just about anything in the name of "stopping terrorists" is headed towards a dark place.

  • #2
    I think the government enforces all these rules and policies to appease the public. I honestly don't think that the government seriously thinks they are going to catch any terrorists in this method. They are just doing this so that scared people will just shut up :]. But yes, I agree that there are many other things that should be protected other than airports.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by edw View Post
      I think the government enforces all these rules and policies to appease the public. I honestly don't think that the government seriously thinks they are going to catch any terrorists in this method. They are just doing this so that scared people will just shut up :]. But yes, I agree that there are many other things that should be protected other than airports.
      Do you think the government officials, born, raised, educated, conditioned, "encultured", and living among every other person is going to be any smarter or wiser than the average person?

      Id highly suggest watching the BBC documentary linked to, for a display of government "expert" intelligence. Think about it. The government cannot do anything to stop "terrorist" commando units from roaming around the country killing and blowing stuff up wherever they want. A typical criminal is caught after months of investigation and tracking them down to their home (unless they are really stupid). Many criminals are never caught, or even identified, depiste what the authorities would like you to believe.

      A commando unit obviously will obviously not do anything that could trace them down, and could not be stopped by the government unless they did a bunch of really stupid things. The only thing that would stop this, is armed citizens, who managed to defend themselves.

      The fact that none of this has never happened, is evidence that such a thing doesnt exist, just as if you left your home obviously unprotected (and the burglar knows they can get away with it 100%), for a week, and come back to find everything fine, is evidence that there is no burglar, waiting to rob your house.

      It really is enlightening (the documentary) to see the philosophical, political, and ideological background of the "war on terror".

      The government cant protect you or me from terrorists. Anti-US terrorist organizations also dont exist. If they did, they are either dumber than homer simpson, or dont really want to kill anybody.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by edw View Post
        I think the government enforces all these rules and policies to appease the public. I honestly don't think that the government seriously thinks they are going to catch any terrorists in this method. They are just doing this so that scared people will just shut up :]. But yes, I agree that there are many other things that should be protected other than airports.
        Basically, this is true. It's a lot more about the US government trying to cover their ass with their constituents rather than with any real safety. There are some measures that are certainly much more effective, like combating the funding of extremist groups, and hurting their recruiting efforts and infrastructure. But people are generally pretty stupid, and tend to favor reactionary policy as opposed to proactive policy. So scanners in the airports it is.
        "I have called this principle, by which each slight variation, if useful, is preserved, by the term of Natural Selection."
        - Charles Darwin

        Comment


        • #5
          The BBC covered it pretty well (link below). The documentary in the link is called "The power of nightmares", and essentially shows how, for the most part, the "war on terror" was (and is) fighting against the boogeyman. Obviously nutjobs exist, and obviously there is a common IDEA prevalent among islamic extremist types around the world, but there is no global, organized terror network that most people imagine.
          This.

          I think the government enforces all these rules and policies to appease the public. I honestly don't think that the government seriously thinks they are going to catch any terrorists in this method. They are just doing this so that scared people will just shut up :]. But yes, I agree that there are many other things that should be protected other than airports.
          This.
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          • #6
            Yeah I live in the USA and these so called security measures are a complete joke. Nothing being done now is to catch terrorists, they are just there to fool the people into thinking they are actually doing something about the situation.
            Just need HDBits.org to satisfy my needs.

            Comment


            • #7
              I recommend the book called "Overblown" by John Mueller. Lays out a similar argument very well, and with lots of data to back it up.

              Do you know you're more likely to be struck by lightening than to be killed by a terrorist?

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              • #8
                Re: TSA security measures are useless against any real terrorist.

                I agree...the security measures that have been put in place since 2001...and the drastically reduced privacy that accompanies them, signal to me that the terrorists have already won. Even though NY and DC were the only cities physically damaged, every single US citizen now suffers because of it.

                When I first read 1984, I thought the world Orwell described as only taking place in areas like the USSR and China. Now it's scary how many of the same policies America has adopted.

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                • #9
                  Re: TSA security measures are useless against any real terrorist.

                  I get the impression few airline travelers (of any country) take these measurements seriously.

                  Beside mtguy8787's excellent suggestion of the Power of Nightmares, I can also recommend the documentary "Please take off your shoes" which zooms in specifically on the recent history of airport "safety".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TSA security measures are useless against any real terrorist.

                    Originally posted by TeeDee View Post
                    I agree...the security measures that have been put in place since 2001...and the drastically reduced privacy that accompanies them, signal to me that the terrorists have already won. Even though NY and DC were the only cities physically damaged, every single US citizen now suffers because of it. .
                    i dont care about physical damage, buildings and infrastucture can be replaced.
                    3000 lives cant. They are gone forever.
                    And, as to every US citizen "suffering " for it.
                    Well, every citizen is a potential target. terrorist dont care if your from NY or Idaho.
                    All they care about is the word "American"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: TSA security measures are useless against any real terrorist.

                      Originally posted by cdcmaximus View Post
                      i dont care about physical damage, buildings and infrastucture can be replaced.
                      3000 lives cant. They are gone forever.
                      And, as to every US citizen "suffering " for it.
                      Well, every citizen is a potential target. terrorist dont care if your from NY or Idaho.
                      All they care about is the word "American"
                      While this is true...
                      Look at the numbers.
                      Terrorism is not a real threat. The erosion of your and my civil liberties is a much greater risk.
                      Maybe 4000-5000 American's have died from terrorism in the last 10 years.
                      You know how many people die every day from Cancer?
                      Heart Disease?
                      Diabetes?
                      Murder?
                      Suicide?

                      Sorry, the "threat of terrorism" is a very small slice and honestly doesn't even deserve 1/1000th of the attention & money we give to it.
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                      • #12
                        Re: TSA security measures are useless against any real terrorist.

                        Originally posted by freu0047 View Post
                        While this is true...
                        Look at the numbers.
                        Terrorism is not a real threat. The erosion of your and my civil liberties is a much greater risk.
                        Maybe 4000-5000 American's have died from terrorism in the last 10 years.
                        You know how many people die every day from Cancer?
                        Heart Disease?
                        Diabetes?
                        Murder?
                        Suicide?

                        Sorry, the "threat of terrorism" is a very small slice and honestly doesn't even deserve 1/1000th of the attention & money we give to it.
                        your right.
                        many people die every day of the things u listed. But, none of those people died because they were american. And maybe 4-5 thousand isnt alot to you,
                        but i dont look at people as "numbers" {but 4-5 thousand is a hell of alot of people, especially if some were relatives and friends}
                        as to the erosion of our liberties, what really has changed for you?
                        i myself think that we take many of our freedoms for granted.
                        the many worries that go thru my head everyday, raising my son, paying the morgage, bills, women, etc.
                        worries about the stabilty of the govt., and the alleged infringement of my rights are way way down on the list.
                        the USA is far from perfect, we have many many problems. but i can honestly say, that i have pride in being an american, and there is no other place that i would want to live.
                        Last edited by ; May 8, 2011, 09:58 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: TSA security measures are useless against any real terrorist.

                          Originally posted by cdcmaximus View Post
                          your right.
                          many people die every day of the things u listed. But, none of those people died because they were american. And maybe 4-5 thousand isnt alot to you,
                          but i dont look at people as "numbers" {but 4-5 thousand is a hell of alot of people, especially if some were relatives and friends}
                          as to the erosion of our liberties, what really has changed for you?
                          i myself think that we take many of our freedoms for granted.
                          the many worries that go thru my head everyday, raising my son, paying the morgage, bills, women, etc.
                          worries about the stabilty of the govt., and the alleged infringement of my rights are way way down on the list.
                          the USA is far from perfect, we have many many problems. but i can honestly say, that i have pride in being an american, and there is no other place that i would want to live.
                          Thousands of people die every day because they were born in poverty stricken countries in Africa.
                          They didn't ask to be born in that environment did they?
                          I don't look in people as "numbers" either, but it is still, there are greater threats..

                          As for our civil liberties and those of people around the world..

                          What has changed??

                          You remember when Abu Ghraib torture thing surfaced and it was revealed that our government
                          participated in rendition, a practice where we kidnap people and turn them over to regimes who specialize
                          in torture, I was sure us American people would have a problem with that. We didn't.

                          Then came the news that we jailed thousands of so-called terrorist suspects, locked them up without
                          the right to a trial or even the right to confront their accusers in Guantanamo bay. Certainly, we would never stand for that.
                          We did.

                          The we discovered the executive branch has been conducting massive, illegal, domestic
                          surveillance on its own citizens. I at least consoled myself that finally, finally the
                          American people will have had enough.
                          Evidentially, we haven't.

                          In fact, if the people of this country have spoken, the message is we're okay with it all. Torture,
                          warrantless search and seizure, illegal wiretappings, prison without a fair trial or any trial, war on false
                          pretenses.
                          We, as a citizenry, are apparently not offended.

                          You think we might be-able to protest.. Make a placard and demonstrate at a Presidential or Vice-Presidential
                          appearance, but we've lost the right to that as well.
                          The Secret Service can now declare free speech zones to contain, control and, in effect, criminalize protest.
                          Stop for a second and try to fathom that.
                          At a presidential rally, parade or appearance, if you have on a supportive t-shirt, you can be there.
                          If you’re wearing or carrying something in protest, you can be removed.]

                          This! In the United States of America. This! In the United States of America.

                          The USA is far from perfect. The world is far from perfect.

                          In a matter of fact, I am more proud to be a Human being than an American.
                          And to be honest I must say, I am embarrassed to be an American.
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                          • #14
                            Re: TSA security measures are useless against any real terrorist.

                            First Freu, let me say this, your avatar is crackin me up!
                            And, im sorry that your embarrassed to be an american. Hopefully that will change.
                            You make alot of points in your last post, so as to the whole torture question.
                            im on the fence with that one. I agree that torture is wrong in general, but i also realize that extreme measures sometimes have to be
                            used in extreme times.
                            As to many americans being arlright with it?
                            many did {like myself, but it was not easy} and many did not.
                            as to the massive wiretaping? { I assume your refering to the "patriot act"}
                            i dont think it was as massive as you think. just my op. the vast vast majority of americans had nothing to fear.
                            look 9/11 changed this country and the world very much. Our {USA} greatest defence in the past, were two big ass oceans.
                            the pre 9/11 days are gone. we live in a dog eat dog world.
                            do i wish the world could get along? hell yea!
                            but thats not reality.
                            my op. is that as long as we have "organized religion", we will always have conflict.

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                            • #15
                              Re: TSA security measures are useless against any real terrorist.

                              Originally posted by cdcmaximus View Post
                              First Freu, let me say this, your avatar is crackin me up!
                              And, im sorry that your embarrassed to be an american. Hopefully that will change.
                              You make alot of points in your last post, so as to the whole torture question.
                              im on the fence with that one. I agree that torture is wrong in general, but i also realize that extreme measures sometimes have to be
                              used in extreme times.
                              As to many americans being arlright with it?
                              many did {like myself, but it was not easy} and many did not.
                              as to the massive wiretaping? { I assume your refering to the "patriot act"}
                              i dont think it was as massive as you think. just my op. the vast vast majority of americans had nothing to fear.
                              look 9/11 changed this country and the world very much. Our {USA} greatest defence in the past, were two big ass oceans.
                              the pre 9/11 days are gone. we live in a dog eat dog world.
                              do i wish the world could get along? hell yea!
                              but thats not reality.
                              my op. is that as long as we have "organized religion", we will always have conflict.
                              Lol thanks. IMAGINE made it for me.

                              I hope I can one day stop being embarrassed to be an American.
                              While I do love living in this country and feel very privileged to grow up here, I just have a big problem with our ever-reaching hand.

                              And while I understand there are extreme circumstances where torture might be ok to some people, it is still wrong.
                              There is a due process in this country we completely ignore in this circumstances.

                              And the wiretapping, I don't think it is as small as you think. I fear that on a whim my communications can be intercepted and listened to without my knowledge or consent. Even if I have done nothing wrong and have nothing to fear, I have major major privacy fears.

                              Shouldn’t we be able to have private lives that aren't pried into by our government? My God! I cannot believe I just asked that question. My head may explode.
                              The right to privacy is guaranteed under our constitution. But now, thanks to our current Supreme Court, that right is flickering like a candle in the wind. And the breeze is picking up. And at what point will we say, will you say, that provided we do not violate the law other people cannot dictate or know what we do in the privacy of our own homes. Please think about the dying gasps of our precious right to privacy and what our lives might be like if it actually passes away.

                              As for organized religion. I agree completely. It leads to more problems then anything else.
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