Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is college education really necessary?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Curiolio View Post
    Business.
    Precisely the course where the material is irrelevant.
    Well, if you do think so ,whatever, hope you can make your self-interest lifestyle, I am a normal person, I have to learn something from university, it is actually not everyone can find or use what they learned from school, they always think they wasted their time in the school because all of studying is useless. The truth is they are useless, the school was wasting time to teach some fools,hahaha
    Last edited by CrazyApple; November 7, 2012, 02:57 PM.

    Comment


    • Theres a very good quote from a fairly popular movie called Good Will Hunting. Its kinda long but here it is:

      Chuckie: Are we gonna have a problem here?
      Clark: No, no, no, no! There's no problem here. I was just hoping you might give me some insight into the evolution of the market economy in the southern colonies. My contention is that prior to the Revolutionary War, the economic modalities, especially in the southern colonies, could be most aptly described as agrarian pre-capitalist.
      Will: Of course that's your contention. You're a first-year grad student; you just got finished reading some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison probably. You're gonna be convinced of that 'till next month when you get to James Lemon. Then you're going to be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year; you're gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin' about, you know, the pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.
      Clark: Well, as a matter of fact, I won't, because Wood drastically underestimates the impact of social...
      Will: "Wood drastically underestimates the impact of social distinctions predicated upon wealth, especially inherited wealth"? You got that from Vickers' "Work in Essex County," page 98, right? Yeah, I read that too. Were you gonna plagiarize the whole thing for us? Do you have any thoughts of your own on this matter? Or do you, is that your thing, you come into a bar, read some obscure passage and then pretend - you pawn it off as your own, as your own idea just to impress some girls, embarrass my friend?
      Will: See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life: one, don't do that, and two, you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!
      Clark: Yeah, but I will have a degree. And you'll be servin' my kids fries at a drive-thru on our way to a skiing trip.
      Will: That may be, but at least I won't be unoriginal. But I mean, if you have a problem with that, I mean, we could just step outside - we could figure it out.
      Clark: No, man, there's no problem. It's cool.

      Now most of that is satire and aimed at making the other character look stupid but the bolded part really stuck with me. I didn't go to college right after high school and have contemplated it often and I'm most likely going to star t this year. The reason this quote resonates with me is because knowledge is free. Anyone can learn anything with some patience and a library card. Dare I say even a surgeon. There's definitely something to say for hands on practice in the field but its also not out of the realm of possibility that you could teach yourself it all from detailed medical journals and textbooks.Your essentially paying an ungodly amount of money for a piece of paper and some structured learning. That piece of paper has had a lot of emphasis put on it and it sure makes it easier to get a job in your specific field but its a bit sad I think, that the person who showed the initiative to learn the information by themselves in the sensible economic way would be far less likely to receive a position when up against someone with an expensive piece of paper.

      Me, I'm going because I want to learn and even though I dont think the subjects I will chose will ultimately lead to a job they interest me and i think thats more important, also because the government is going to pay for almost all of it.

      So to make a long answer short - yea i think its necessary and i think that's sad.
      <Lardo>josh you rule
      <&drauka> vegans don't deserve ice cream
      <@Hobbes> YEAH TOAST!
      Toast 2013!
      Thanks to DocDoom for my pretty much as sweet as they come avatar. He was also cooler for about 15 seconds when he changed his name.sigpic

      Comment


      • College=More in-depth knowledge of subject= you start your first ever job better prepared = more job satisfaction, better chances of promotion.
        Thanks shadowbuild for the VIP ! And to all of you in T-I who've helped me sofar !

        sigpic

        KNIGHT OF HIGH HOUSE DARK

        My monthly GA: 2 X IPT | 1 X HD-MKV | 5 X MyA

        Comment


        • Looking back at my studies (engineering), they were necessary in several aspects :
          to teach me about technical aspects amongst others
          to live/learn/study with people of the same age in a more adult way than high school, although those people have different background, are from different race, religion...
          to experience living alone, taking care of yourself in a semi/full independent situation from your family
          to have to make choices regarding money to spend on food, clothes, entertainment

          In my country (belgium) university and college are very cheap, although both are not a walk in the park for most people, so everybody has the chance to go to any university or college they want (of course depending on entry exams if applicable), which is in my opinion a big advantage over countries where only the rich / lucky or very smart / talented have the chance to attend college / university of their choice

          another thing is that companies (at least in europe, I'm not sure about situation in USA) do need that you have a degree applicable to the job you are appliying for or gained enough experience in similar job, otherwise you can't get in
          this is applicable to most jobs, there are of course exceptions

          all in all I think college / university is necessary not only for the knowledge, but also for the entire experience, going from childhood to adulthood
          of course not everybody will experience it in the same way, however it is in my eyes indispensable for every person, no matter what course you follow, or how many years

          Comment


          • it very much depends on you, but i would say more education wouldnt hurt

            Comment


            • Yes and No, thekenu. As you spend time and resources for "more education". This time and resource could get other use with more future benefits.
              For example, for last five years i was considering, whether i should go for Doctorate studies, but i've failed to answer, why should i do it.
              College/Univercity education is more important, as it opens more doors for future employment. Not because of the ""things you learn"" but because of the decree you hold (HR look for that).

              Comment


              • it is nececery, unless,
                you are very lucky guy.

                Comment


                • I personally believe that college education is often times unnecessary, but the college experience is. Not to say the boozing or partying bit (though it has its value) but the independence, time management skills, and understanding of responsibilities. Can those experiences be gotten outside of college? probably, but I think it's easier in college.

                  Comment


                  • from my experience college only is important only in some domains
                    i went to law school but i got enough of it when i saw how many people passed all the exams with big grades just because they paid for them :| so i got an em rage in my last year and just quitted :p (i should have at least finish the year but when the damn teacher took my paper and told me i didn't do anything right when it was more then acceptable i went nuts; after i asked him to take a better look he told me is just i learned a day or 2 before exams so it does not count; so i went in a rage and if some mates didn't stopped me i would have beaten the shit out of that mofo so in the end i quitted in my last year, and yeah the university was one from the top in my country ... frigging lawyers) but now i am going to a maritime university (at least here the teachers are not so stuck up) but i saw so many people with a collage degree and they didn't know shit so it all depends on the one who is hiring you but imo if you know what are you doing a piece of paper is worthless but not all think that way

                    Comment


                    • I think a college education isnt important for the same reasons that many think. i think one of the best things about college besides the inclination to learn or go to class or do something, is the connections you can make, the networking you do with people which can get you where you want to be. Skills can be acquired once you're in but to get in, that can be a fair bit harder as people can make up rules and jobs to suit whatever they need to get you in if they want or like you enough.

                      Comment


                      • I also agree with most people that college is worthwhile for many other aspects such as social skills, making friends, networking, having the time of your life.
                        In college we are taught something and then given a test. In life we are given a test, and then we learn something from it.

                        If you're 18, I'd say go to college and work on your IM stuff instead of getting a part time job. If you're 30 and already in a job, then going back to college really isn't going to help you much (unless you're getting a specific degree for a specific job).

                        Comment


                        • Well, being educated only broadens our horizon and in my opinion and absolute necessity to survive in the ever growing world. If a person were to be uneducated even the most simplest task given to him would impossible eg: 2+2 =__ <--- age old example given to us ask kids "questioning education".

                          When a soldier goes into a battle field he must be well trained and equipped to battle his enemy, same goes for a person and the rest of the world and the training that person needs can only be done though college education. Sure u can give an example of drop-outs as being successful, only handful. The rest did get educated in vast numbers.
                          sigpic

                          special thanks to
                          Super_Nova, mate88, ECH3LON
                          Proud Friend Of:
                          Sinius, mate88, Super_Nova, Fuska, Karajan, graphic,subkar,tinman,Killer_Monty,Cafe,yorkshire, Allice, Raum, Cerberusj,

                          NexRay, pejioto,DX, InsanePinoBoy,ECH3LON,Pulser,Copper,IguessNot,Shadowbuild,JustJe nna,TankGirl,Splendid,GPaX and more..





                          Comment


                          • I'm not going to read through 17 pages of replies to post here, so if I say something that has already been stated, oh, well. Besides, these are my opinions anyway.

                            Having said that, college is not for everyone. In the US, education has become a bubble in that it's become a business steeped in debt. Basically, in an era of hyper-competition, people with college degrees originally had an advantage over those without, so then everyone (or almost everyone) pushed to get a degree, and having a college degree became implicitly promoted as necessary to work in the business world. However, not everyone could afford a college education. Enter the world of student loans and student debt. Either one was able to get into a state school with reasonable tuition rates or one had to go to a private school with exorbitant tuition rates. As many people fell into the latter, debt accumulated and still does, so now, you have a considerable number of people in debt that many cannot afford. This is not to mention that now that business college degrees have become so ubiquitous, they no longer hold the weight they used to, and now, people are turning to MBA's to get the edge they once had with college degrees. Moreover, the same problem with college degrees is now happening with MBA's, and this is just one such example. Nonetheless, the effect of this is that more debt is accumulated just to get to the same spot in the workplace. Who benefits? The banks. Who will suffer? The people. When will they suffer? Look to the realm of real estate for that answer: When people were unable to pay back their mortgages due to simply not having the money for it, we crashed, and we crashed hard when that bubble burst. Mark my words, the same thing will happen with education unless something is done.

                            All these so-called "non-profit" institutions have administration and deans and chancellors and board of trustees and whatnot who line their pockets with tuition money and textbook manufacturers who release new editions with little to no changes only to make more money. It's scandalous. At least with books, people can get by with tricks rather easily. Case in point, I didn't buy a single textbook my final year of undergrad. But I digress upon my digression. (Yo dawg?)

                            The other thing is how college curricula are designed. Students are required to be "well rounded" with these Gen Ed classes that they will forget in a couple years. Look, I'm all for the pursuit of knowledge, but a Bio student really doesn't need to take an Art Appreciation class, nor does an Art student need a Chemistry class, nor does an engineer need a Literature class, nor does a writer need a Calculus class. It's all unnecessary and a waste of time. Furthermore, a mechanic needs almost none of these classes, and a student who is great with their hands and spent their entire life fixing (and possibly some of their life boosting) cars has no need for these superfluous classes. Thankfully there are programs and institutes in place for them. However, this can also be applied to a business setting. Most of what a business person will learn in college will not be applied to their 9-5 job full of middle management, cover sheets for TPS reports, and highly unqualified sycophants who deserve far less than what they receive. Those people will benefit from an apprenticeship at their target company, where they will devote ALL their energy into learning the knowledge necessary for that job and the intricacies of that particular company and how they apply to that job. These people who undergo such an apprenticeship out of high school do much better than a newcomer who spent an equal time in college learning the theory "required" for that job. The key is that the time spent in college is wasteful, which ties into my original point about how college is a business. It also means that those years of potential productivity are lost in the classroom when it doesn't need to be. That is the real important reason (aside from the accruing debt) why a college education isn't as necessary as it's made out to be. It's this homogenization of education that causes this waste. Everyone is different, and after a certain point, their educations should suit their differences. This is how it's done in so many other countries, and they're doing just fine in education due to the efficiency of their systems. Such systems, albeit unequal, reduce waste in education, and not just in the money, but in the time! There is so much less time wasted in educating a student in what they need to know, and once that waste is reduced in the US, the population as a whole will thrive, as people will be doing things suited to them, which includes things they want to do or prefer doing to other things, and once this takes place, and people are happier with their lot, society as a whole will improve. (Yeah, I've given this a lot of thought.)

                            I'm not saying to do away with college altogether. There are many professions where a college education is necessary, such as any number of Pre-Med programs, any programs aimed towards journalism, any programs that would aid in Law School, engineering programs, etc. They simply need knowledge to work in that field, and that knowledge will be obtained in a college setting, not to mention that if people are seeking those professions in the first place, they will be more driven to learn in the first place, they will conduct themselves as such, the college environment will improve, and so on, in an upward spiral effect. To close, the more specialized a field of study is, the more it necessitates a college education. Otherwise, it's not as needed.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by MichaelJenkins View Post

                              All these so-called "non-profit" institutions have administration and deans and chancellors and board of trustees and whatnot who line their pockets with tuition money and textbook manufacturers who release new editions with little to no changes only to make more money. It's scandalous. At least with books, people can get by with tricks rather easily. Case in point, I didn't buy a single textbook my final year of undergrad. But I digress upon my digression. (Yo dawg?)
                              I hear ya man, fuckin' textbooks are a racket. A racket, I tells ya. And in the entire time I was in college I only managed to pirate one....

                              The other thing is how college curricula are designed. Students are required to be "well rounded" with these Gen Ed classes that they will forget in a couple years. Look, I'm all for the pursuit of knowledge, but a Bio student really doesn't need to take an Art Appreciation class, nor does an Art student need a Chemistry class, nor does an engineer need a Literature class, nor does a writer need a Calculus class. It's all unnecessary and a waste of time.
                              I donno, artists do some pretty weird stuff sometimes..

                              Furthermore, a mechanic needs almost none of these classes, and a student who is great with their hands and spent their entire life fixing (and possibly some of their life boosting) cars has no need for these superfluous classes. Thankfully there are programs and institutes in place for them. However, this can also be applied to a business setting. Most of what a business person will learn in college will not be applied to their 9-5 job full of middle management, cover sheets for TPS reports, and highly unqualified sycophants who deserve far less than what they receive. Those people will benefit from an apprenticeship at their target company, where they will devote ALL their energy into learning the knowledge necessary for that job and the intricacies of that particular company and how they apply to that job.
                              I was with you up to here. That might've worked 50-60 years ago, when you pretty much stayed with a company for life or at least most of it. Heck, The Jetsons even had an episode where George lost his job, and was panicking saying, "All I know how to do is operate a RUDY computer!" If you tried to do that today, you'd be in the same situation. Maybe some of your skills transfer, maybe they don't. My college education gave me a broad base of knowledge which I could use to break into my field (IT) that I just wouldn't get if I started off in a lowly tech position somewhere. While job searching I was able to at least consider pretty much everything, and if my current employer folded tomorrow, I could jump into programming or sysadmin if I wanted. Meanwhile if all I knew were my employer's products, I'd be fucked.

                              And it ain't just Tech. There's a lot of theory that goes into Marketing that you wouldn't get otherwise, math that goes into Operations and Management (yes, management!), things that are best studied academically in a structured environment. An outgoing type-A personality salesman might be able to pull it off on his wits and force of personality alone, but not everyone can do that. Study can level the playing field somewhat.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by amachan View Post
                                I hear ya man, fuckin' textbooks are a racket. A racket, I tells ya. And in the entire time I was in college I only managed to pirate one....
                                Oh, man, that must have been rough. I pulled it off by mostly trading textbooks from the first few years, but I also some places where books were kept. Namely, the back of the Science Labs housed a lot of books, and I really used it more like a library. Still, to each their own.

                                Originally posted by amachan View Post
                                That might've worked 50-60 years ago, when you pretty much stayed with a company for life or at least most of it. Heck, The Jetsons even had an episode where George lost his job, and was panicking saying, "All I know how to do is operate a RUDY computer!" If you tried to do that today, you'd be in the same situation. Maybe some of your skills transfer, maybe they don't. My college education gave me a broad base of knowledge which I could use to break into my field (IT) that I just wouldn't get if I started off in a lowly tech position somewhere. While job searching I was able to at least consider pretty much everything, and if my current employer folded tomorrow, I could jump into programming or sysadmin if I wanted. Meanwhile if all I knew were my employer's products, I'd be fucked.

                                And it ain't just Tech. There's a lot of theory that goes into Marketing that you wouldn't get otherwise, math that goes into Operations and Management (yes, management!), things that are best studied academically in a structured environment. An outgoing type-A personality salesman might be able to pull it off on his wits and force of personality alone, but not everyone can do that. Study can level the playing field somewhat.
                                Well, this shut me up. You got me. Clearly I have not spent time in the business world, so I tip my hat to you. I didn't think of all these things, but then again, this is why I love this forum.

                                However, there is still much to be said about the homogenization of education and its detrimental effects AND over-education or unnecessary education (which feels weird for me to say as someone who likes school so much.) Even though I got carried away, I still think that there are some classes that people are required to take but don't need. For most people, college algebra, fine, I get it, but Trigonometry? I like trig, but I'll admit there aren't that many uses for knowing the phase shift of a sine curve versus that of a tangent curve. (It's not true for all of trig, but it seems like it's true for more trig topics than it isn't.) The same could be said for most of geometry. Also, unless you have a particular interest in Chemistry, it's not that necessary outside of "don't mix acids and bases" and a few other things.

                                I guess the real point I was making is that there is some education that isn't necessary. For instance, some years ago, an occupational therapist only needed a bachelor's degree to practice, but now a master's degree is needed. I'm not sure what knowledge is gained from this master's but I know for sure that if you compare two people, one who gets their master's and another who worked as an OT for the same time, when compared, the person who worked as an OT is better off than the person with the masters, in that they're more skilled and are actually making money in that time rather than paying it.

                                I could go on about the homogenization of education, which would tie into amachan's point of 50-60 years ago, its detriments to education, and how its effects were masked by the cold war, but this is about college, and if I remember correctly, college began to rise in popularity around that time, if not slightly before, but that's veering more on to another point. I'll just say again that college isn't for everyone. It's for most people, but not everyone. Also, there's way too much waste built into the system that needs to go. Finally, if you can't afford to pay off loans stemming from $40,000+/yr tuition, then go to a state school; get your AA and then transfer. There's no shame in community colleges. That, I think, is the way to go.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X