Thread: Intro Section Suggestions

Hi:

I have two suggestions for consideration by the T-I community as it pertains to the intro section.

I noticed during my time lurking in intros and the last few days posting there that each intro worker has a different welcome message when repping in a midget. My first suggestion is to have a standard template that each intro worker would use when repping in. At a minimum, I think the message should have a link to a handy guide to common forum questions and also how to join us on MIRC. I shamelessly borrowed (stole?) my welcome message from Freedom, and it reads as follows:

Important welcome details below:

1. Please familiarize yourself with the rules before doing anything else; this guide provides a good overview for newcomers: Forum rules condensed
2. Please be sure to make useful posts; spam will not be tolerated
3. No duplicate tracker accounts, No sharing accounts, No Trading.
4. No collecting trackers if you are not going to use them
5. If you get banned ANYWHERE it reflects poorly on me; please do not make me regret my decision.
6. Most important rule of all: enjoy your time here!
7. Check out How to ‘join us in IRC with "mIRC"

I'm not saying this is perfect or can't be improved upon, but it does provide a overview for the newly repped in midget as to what we expect of them. Perhaps we could also consider adding current promotions, like the permanent VIP contest underway. Anyway, I believe that a template could provide a useful bridge to midgets to help them acclimate to membership on site.



OK, on to suggestion number two. Perhaps it is better framed as a request for clarification. As it stands, the purpose of the question on trading invites is unclear to me. By point of reference, take a look at this intro: http://www.torrent-invites.com/intro...blaine123.html

The pertinent rule for intro workers on the trading question is as follows--"Examine his answer on the trading question. If he wants to trade, ask him why he wants to be so selfish. Be vague and non specific. Do not explain our stance on trading - this information is evident in the rules. If they read the rules, they should know. If he still wants to trade, then do not rep him in and contact a moderator." Of course, in practice, most intro workers (me included) just link the midget to the "trading is strictly forbidden" post and ask for a revision of the trading response.

So what is the proper course of action when you have a midget like Blaine123 (don't mean to pick on him, just an example), whose English skills seem fine, who puts up the answer he did after I explained what trading was and suggested he read the rules before responding?

We seem to allow midgets to do the equivalent of jailhouse religious conversions, to allow them to flip pro-trading views into anti-trading views, even if it is obvious they are just saying what they need to say to get repped in. Is the purpose of the trading question to merely inform them of T-I's no trading stance and confirm they understand it and will follow it? Or is it to weed out midgets who are pro-trading even after getting a chance to rethink their initial response? Just trying to get a sense of what we are after here.

Thanks for your consideration.

For first sugg. :

Well it is always good to know the place when you get repped in..and know what our motives are and how this place runs....so +1 on that idea...


for second:
Well m8 I use to work on intro's and cause of this reason only I didn't repped many in..but I felt like I am doing something wrong when other get repped in with same reply and after changing why the one I am taking intro of...well I am too much anti trader to rep. someone with these answers.....

but there is always other view to it from others which goes like this "As once everyone was noob they don't know much about things when they join and it is the environment which mold them how they are...so if you can provide an opertunity to someone to grow in a nice way it is good...."

But I have seen soem user who say they are in p2p since IRC and still say they are OK with trading..I don't think they deserve any second chance..but then again rules are same for all...


So even I want to know the answer for this ques....nothing creative to add for the second just wanted to state my point so replies....hope it is not been seen as a spam....

On your first suggestion I just want to say that I dont really think that EVERYONE should have the same messege. Each person does things in their own way of course within the rules.

in your 7 points that you have I will do down the line

1. This one is fine I include this one myself
2. I also mention this to people I rep in so I am fine with this one
3. This one I dont find necessary because this is already in the rules we are just repeating ourselves
4. No collecting is something we cant really control because we dont know for sure what they do with
their trackers. But it is up to you to write this.
5. Technically if a member you rep in gets banned its not reflected on you. The only time it is reflected
on you is if you carelessly rep them in without following the intro guidelines. Because if they had a
perfect intro or almost perfect intro you in no way had any idea they would mess up anywhere else
or even here on T-I
6. is fine
7. is fine as well i like this.

I just mean we dont have to include everything in the welcome post to them. We dont always have to be EXACTLY the same. As long as we follow the same rules that are set for us then that is fine. But yes we do all have different welcome messeges because we are all different but if you look at them they all pretty much lead to the same place.


On the question of trading yeah I know its not the best way to practice it but we refer them back to the rules to show them what our stance on trading is. And to be honest even if they do change their answer from pro trading to being against within time they will get banned because they will either try to trade or get banned somewhere for doing something wrong. The best practice you can do is if you dont like what they have to say about banning then dont rep them in. And yes you can refer to a mod and get a second opinion.

OK, thanks hummingbird and forbidden.

Sticking with the trading issue, I believe responses to that question can be broken down into 5 buckets:

1. Bucket #1: Clearly anti-trading from the start. Easy enough, no need to waste time on this bucket.

2. Bucket #2: Very short pro-trading answers, e.g. "I think it's great", "yes", etc.

3. Bucket #3: Ambiguous views, e.g., "I don't see anything wrong with it", "if it benefits both parties", etc.

4. Bucket #4: Longer pro trading answers. This category has 2 sub buckets, (i) answers that express a desire to trade invites for other invites and (ii) answers where the applicant is actually expressing support for indirect trading or quid pro quo views, e.g. I would give invites to get other invites or similar.

5. Bucket #5: Clear pro-trading views, e.g., I've traded invites in the past or I would trade invites for money, etc.

I think that pretty much covers the universe of responses. So, ignoring buckets 1 and 5, what is the proper way to approach buckets 2-4? Define what trading is and ask for expanded views? A pointer to the "trading is forbidden" post and a request for revision? Or are different responses called for based on bucket? Per my initial post, I am just trying to get a sense of the purpose of the no trading question, be it education or a weed out question or a hybrid depending on the situation.

+1 on the standardized Repping-in message. A few links to helpful posts will ease the initiation of midgets.

As for your second suggestion, I think the best way to deal with false answers to the trading question is to point to the rules and say, "read it again carefully and rework your answer".

This is the Hybrid you mentioned, it re-educates those that haven't understood the rules and weeds out those that don't make the effort to read the rules.

In the end, you're always going to have people going through the cracks, be it people who re-read the rules and still don't understand what is meant with trading (as opose to separate giving and recieving), or those who are pro-trading and just say they're against to gain entry.

The approach of telling people to rethink their answer is best. In doubt they should take a look at other applications, re-read the rules and put some more effort into their application.



The only alternative to this is the zero-tolerance method.

Here you'll reject:
- a small amount of people who've read the rules, are in fact against trading but misunderstood the question
- a large amount of people who haven't bothered to read the rules (this includes both traders and not)

And you'll accept:
- a small amount of people who are pro-trading, have read the rules and lied.
- a large amount of people who've read the rules, understood the question and answered correctly.

I personally am for the two strikes policy (hybrid). If you feel that somebody hasn't made enough effort to learn about site and write his introduction, nor read the rules properly, give them a second chance. After that they're out. I think this is the way it's generally being done already, albeit with varying degrees of leniency...

I personally am for the two strikes policy (hybrid). If you feel that somebody hasn't made enough effort to learn about site and write his introduction, nor read the rules properly, give them a second chance. After that they're out. I think this is the way it's generally being done already, albeit with varying degrees of leniency...

See this is the thing that they are trying to avoid that is why some parts of the introduction process have become a slight bit more lenient because we are turning away too many people. At one point it was some crazy numbers of people that were getting in something like 1 in 25 or something like that. The majority of the people get more than three tries when it comes to the intros. If we activate a 2 or even 3 strikes rule your going to see a whole lot of people get turned away. And those numbers will drop.

Now with a standardized repping in message I still say this is something that personally I would not like to be put in place because there are those that like to put in their own links to items that they find important. Such as myself right now I sometimes put in the link to our current contest. Some put in links to rules or faq. Some word thing differently but sometimes mean the same thing. I just mean to an extent we should be the same when it comes to following the rules and the way we conduct the introductions but when it comes to something as simple as welcoming a midget to the site then why should we take our individuality in the way we say thank you. The Repped in message has only been seen recently before the only thing you would have to say is "Repped In Welcome" or "ok your in welcome to TI" It was not meant to become fancy or even for rules to be put in place on how you welcome someone. The rules are there they are responsible to read and follow them. If they dont they have to suffer the consequences.

I have worked the introductions in the past and I can definitely say it's a tiring job to sift through the threads and post your comments. Having a standardized welcoming message where active intro workers can simply paste their repped-in messages will definitely make things easier and quicker.

Although, I've never agreed with the copy and paste method. To me, it's about effort. Pasting text over and over does not give a new member that impression. He could simply pass it off as another message to overlook. Yes, I know he shouldn't do this in the first place, but you're usually the only one working that particular introduction and have somewhat built a bond. Finishing it off with a pasted message just doesn't feel right.

Therefore, I'll have to agree with hummingbird regarding the welcome message. I believe we should have something similar but not a standardized one. After I've repped in a midget, I'll usually welcome him to T-I. Followed by "Please mind the rules and do not start spamming the threads once you've gained access to the rest of the forum. Please make your posts count - put some thought and effort into them. If you have any questions, please start by using our search tool or read the stickies on top of each section. Then the help section if the previously mentioned does not help." It'll differ here and there. I might link members to certain threads or mention ways to gain rep, but that's all mentioned in the stickies. Interested members will find ways to gain rep themselves. Most of the ones I've seen in IRC are users who tends to become active and outstanding members of our community so I've never felt the need to point them out to too many things.

Maybe it's just the bullet points. Perhaps, complete sentences might be better suited for this situation. I don't know. I'm not sure I really explained this to the best of my ability, but I hope you've grasped the main reasoning behind my post.

As for the trading question. Again, I'll have to agree with hummingbird. We were already told how members were too strict when repping in midgets. I believe we were turning away too many potential members and that isn't good for T-I. After JJ's announcement, we've now become too lenient. I don't think we'll ever find that mid-way point or that line to distinguish a potential fail or pass of an introduction regarding trading. It's usually up to the intro worker to decide if the pro-trader will indeed abide by our rules and not trade here or anywhere else or will they get caught doing so and receive a permanent ban anyways. That's not something we can judge with a few sentences, but I can't see a pro-trader giving up trading. Just pass the introduction to a moderator if you're unsure.

The purpose of the trading question is education. We wish to explain why we are anti-traders, and hopefully to sway those that have not already made up their mind. However, we will not force a member to accept our ideology, so long as they agree not to trade, on this site or anywhere else. People are welcome to their viewpoints so long as they agree to follow our rules. For example, I don't agree with every rule my country club enforces, but I can still be a member as long as I follow the rules.

Members should be repped in, even if they are pro-trading, so long as they say that that they understand we are a no trading site and will not engage in the practice. Even if they are just saying what we want to hear, they should have the chance to prove they can be trusted. Even those who have traded prior to coming to T-I are welcome here, as long as they promise not to do it again. Everyone deserves the same chance.

In regards to your first suggestion, I have to decline it. It makes our community seem far too cold for everyone to get a cookie cutter, stock answer. Each intro is unique, and therefore, each welcome message will be different.

Thanks for your thoughts though, I always enjoy reading your intelligent posts.