Thread: So you want to write music

Hello all! I thought I would make a quick tut on music production and composition, these days it seems that many people are interested in experimenting with this field either as a profession or just for fun. It isn't an easy path however! There is so much to know, it has taken me at least 4 years to get to even an intermediate stage and it's not an instant gratification kind of thing. So with out further wait let's get into it.

First of all we need to take a look at perhaps the brains behind the process, your workstation. These days most people uses a DAW or Digital Audio Workstation as opposed to a hardware console, I myself uses DAWS since they are relatively cheap and are now extremely powerful when coupled with a great PC. So how do I know what DAW to pick and what do I need to use one?
These days there are many DAWS to choose from all with different workflows and abilities, there are also DAWS for differing skill levels.
-Cubase: A more advanced level workstation well suited to a varied range of composition, you can use this for electronic music or classical work although I would say it's more suited to the later. Cubase has an excellent MIDI feature and mixer, many of it's default plug-ins are extremely well made. It's audio algorithms are fantastic meaning you can apply fantastic time stretches to audio files and really get into the waveforms for editing.
It's fairly expensive and requires a key dongle to run, it will work on both Mac and PC-I'm not sure about Linux however.

-Logic Pro- Similar to Cubase logic is again a more advanced DAW but also provides to the intermediate level composers/producers. Arguably logics MIDI capability is not as advanced as that of Cubase but Logic makes up for this with extremely useful automation editing, great audio processing tools and fantastic plug-ins. Logics in my opinion has a lot more features right out of the box than Cubase does-It is a 50gig install. Logic also has a fantastic mixer, there are many discussions debating if Logic is better than Cubase or vice versa however I think they are both equal in capability they only really differ in workflow.

-Pro Tools. A name that everybody knows, this is often referred to as the DAW of DAWs. Why? It's industry standard, Pro tools has incredible editing capabilities often including features which the majority of DAWs don't have, they have an even better range of in the box plug-ins with it's TDM plug-in range. Pro tools has a fantastic score editor-not surprising since Avid owns Sibelius. MIDI functionality is also fantastic and when you integrate Pro Tools with it's hardware components (now no longer a necessity since the DAW can be purchased as a stand alone) it makes for a very powerful workstation indeed. However price is a big limitation for many people combined with an even bigger learning curve-this is fairly complex DAW so beginners should stay clear of this one.

-Reason. This is as i like to say the 'geek DAW' not meaning disrespect to my fellow audio geeks because I am one. Make no mistake, this is more complex than any of the DAWs I have previously mentioned. Think old school here, instead of having your mixer signal chain mapped out behind the scenes YOU have to do all the work, you actually have to 'patch' the cables in order to link plug-ins, effects units and the like. Having said that though Reason is fantastic due to it's versatility. It will actually help you to understand the audio process involved with DAWs and mixers, you can customize and arrange things exactly how you want it. The plug-ins are also extremely powerful and customizable. Reason users don't use presets, they make their own or make the existing presets their own. Reason does however lack in MIDI flexibility when compared to Cubase or maybe even logic, it also doesn't have the score editing capability that the previously mentioned DAWs have.

-Fl studio. My humble beginning, this as well as Reaper are fantastic DAWs for beginners and intermediates. Don't let that put you off if you're a pro however as Deadmau5 still uses this program! Nothing is too complex and it comes with EVERYTHING a beginner could want, all of the plug-ins are really well made and are by no means just for noobs. Good MIDI editing and a powerful mixer make for a winning combination, no score editor has been included yet as far as I know so if you're more into orchestral work perhaps stay away from this one. For the electronic producer however this could be fantastic.
Now I'm sure I have left out some DAWs so don't jump up and down , there are simply to many options to list so I used a few well known ones as examples. Do some research and you will find a plethora of options. To be continued!

---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------

Cont.
As mentioned earlier you can forgo a DAW and use hardware, this is the more expensive option and you can either go analog or digital here so there is a great deal to choose from. I would say that a DAW could make you life much easier these days then the hardware components but it's can be a great option to have.
I won't mention brand names as there are simply to many so do the research if this is your thing.

Ok lets now look at what's required to run the DAWS or some of the hardware units. The neural hub of your setup the PC.
Now the two most common PCs here are Windows machines and Macs, lets not have ourselves a flame war over which is better =P they are both great. Windows is the cheeper option 90% of the time here and unless you have a mac pro is more customizable. Mac on the other hand has a lot more proprietary hardware and software available-namely big brands like Apogee, Logic, Motu and some really fantastic programs like Sound Hack. It's can be an extremely expensive option but the hardware is really well integrated and IMHO has less problems whilst running audio programs than windows can, just saying!
The most important thing however is what you have in your PC, lets have a look at the essential requirements.
-Processor: With most DAWs these days including 64 bit architecture things are getting CPU intensive, the more plug-ins you use the more stress on the CPU and the more multi tasking you do the more cores you should have. I would definitely say the bare minimum is a core two duo at around 2.ghz and up. If you are really going all out at 100 tracks or running the big programs you should have at least a quad running at 3.00ghz and up.

Ram- This is perhaps more important than your CPU. The ram buffers audio, processes audio, defines how much software you can run at the same time through the DAW. Please, don't sacrifice on ram, just don't! Bare minimum these days is fast becoming 4 gig, don't go less than 3. Ideally you want 6 and with more intensive work you should have 8 and up. Best option is DDR3 ram running in the correct series-look all of this up in your own time.

Hard drive: Still a very important component, if you plan to have a lot of programs and make lot's of tracks you don't want less than 250gig, I use 500gig which is still serving me well but 1 TB and up is a fantastic thing to have. SATA is a good option tough solid state is better imo.

Graphics- Seriously not a big part of the process, have a card that can support the GUI of your DAW taking into mind that many DAWs run hundreds of flashing lights and can be quite color intensive so don't get a piece of crap card but don't spend heaps on one unless you need it for others things.

Cooling and fans- Make sure you PC is at a stable temperature, overheating is not good! It's going to put strain on you DAW and could be the cause of system crashes if you let it run too hot. Don't worry about liquid cooling or anything that drastic but make sure you have the needed fans and vents in your PC.

Display size- If your on a laptop then you probably aren't as interested in this, don't ever go under than 13inch if that's even possible. If your a desktop user like me go 21 inch and up. The bigger the better, two displayed are often better than one. To be continued.

---------- Post added at 03:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

cont.
Now that I have talked about that lets look at what kinds of additional equipment you should expect to come across.
When you run a DAW through your PC you might find you self needing other components. The first big one is an audio card.
-Audio card/sound card: This is a more advanced and higher quality version of the sound card in all PCs, it will give you much better sound quality than the default and allow you to run your DAW with out incurring freezing or audio buffering problems. Great brands are Em-u, Motu, Apogee, Pre sonus, and RME.
-Audio interfaces: I include this with sound cards because these days sound cards are integrated into many, many interfaces. The interface will allow you to record analog or digital signals like electric guitars, mics and synths. They usually have a range of inputs ranging from 1/4 inch to XLR. The input quality is a factor of sound quality so you do need to pay attention to things like that. I would recommend getting decent sound card under $100.00 and you're not going to get that good a sound quality the more you spend the higher quality components you will get (most of the time) The amount of inputs you use will also be a factor in your choice of sound card.

- MIDI input: Will either be a keyboard, drum pad or something similar. Basically this can be invaluable. I have done the whole 'mouse click note input and edit' before and let me tell you it's not fun. Now that I use a MIDI keyboard I can play what ever comes to mind or experiment quickly and get good results faster. Price isn't that big a deal, some people just like the barebones keyboard and others like the expensive gear that usually integrates a keyboard with mixer-esque functions and drum pads like the Akai MIDI boards.

- Audio monitoring: This will either be headphones or studio monitors or both. Don't be cheap with this! If you can't tell what the sound is doing than you might as well not even bother because you will get horrible results most of the time. I'm not saying you need to spend a grand of this gear, just don't get a $50.00 pair of headphones from Ebay or a $100.00 par of monitors that distort or color the sound. I'm not going to list all of the options here because that would need a separate post. Around the $200.00 to $500.00 range is a good place to start with the more expensive gear usually lending better results. Options can be near-feild monitors or closed back headphones, it just depends on your room, how you like to mix and costs. Also, learn to know your gear! If you know the faults of your monitoring system you will also learn to compensate.

- Equipment in the signal process: You WILL NEED, an EQ unit, a compressor, a limiter, an expander, a mixer of sorts, a reverb unit. There are so many other important tools though! Delays, filters, vocoders, flangers, phasers, stereo spreaders etc. This gear can either be outboard or 'in the box' - your DAW. You EQ needs to be at least four bands, you should have the option of different compression types, FET, multi band compression etc. Your limiter should be capable of a varied range of limiting not just brick walling the signal, same kind of thing with the expander. The mixer should be at least 24 channels with more being better for larger recordings/mixing processes. Your reverb should be able to simulate many different kinds of rooms or spaces. If anyone wants a separate tut on mixing tools and specifics PM me =D
To be cont.



---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

Okay last but not least for this tutorial lets talk about genre and creativity.
Now I will say, not everyone is going to be good at producing music, just the same way that everyone can't become a major league baseball player. I suggest you ease into it and test the waters. If you find it's too complex or difficult try a different approach or maybe it just isn't your thing.
When it comes to producing or composing music there are many options. EDM, Rock, Classical, Jazz. All of them require differing skill sets and stylistic conventions. Remember though rules can be broken if you know how. I suggest you research and find information about the respective genre you are trying to compose music in. If your are interested in electronic music, know how to mix and edit audio in your DAW, understand basic music theory such as scales and key signatures. Know how to layer rhythmic features and harmonies. Understand how a dance floors works and what drives EDM, things like why a 4/4 rhythm is so driving and effective. Learn to program synths and use effects and tricks to your advantage. Also explore other styles! Don't be closed minded, jazz can help you write dance music!!
For the classical composer, understand the role of all the instruments in an orchestra, know you music terms in conjunction with pitch, dynamics, rhythm. Know the ranges and capabilities of the instruments. Understand concepts like counter-point, learn to use subtlety, understand things like the circle of fifths, polyphonic and monophonic melodies. Know what things like an orchestral tuti are, what words like pianissimo and forte are. You should also understand how to use your DAW in conjunction with what you're writing. Don't be afraid of your EQ's and your reverbs, they are there to help you not confuse you =D
Creativity is a struggle and times and a river at others, be prepared for the ups and downs, those who love their music should stick with it no matter what. I myself am struggling with things like self doubt at this very point in time. Others may not understand what you're trying to say through music and others may criticize your music. Hang in there though and seek out those who will enjoy what you have created. Seek inspiration from everywhere and anywhere, be open to suggestion. Don't limit yourself to one genre. Listen to all kinds of music and listen, observe. Ask questions like "How did the composer of the piece make that interesting harmony?" Or "Wow that sounds fantastic what are they doing to get that sound?" Explore the world around you with your creativity, that's what it's there for; other peoples enjoyment and your own enjoyment, it's there so that you may find meaning and purpose through the magic that is music.
Well that wraps this tutorial up, I hope you have found it helpful and interesting. Please guys, if you want to know more about anything I have mentioned in more detail or something else relating to music and this post PM me anytime you wish and feel free to ask for another tutorial as I'm prepared to do more if people wish. I can write more about this like understanding mixing tools and mastering through to understanding musical concepts. Thank you for reading =D

Nice tut!

I have some questions though.
What do you think, are passive monitors and a separate amplifier better than just active speakers?
Do you get better sound quality (or less distortion) by having an audio interface that comes out of your box rather than a separate sound card that you have inside your computer on a PCI slot?

On the hard drive part, I wonder is it a bad idea to use raid0? Double the speed, but double the latency as far as i know. Huge sample libraries take ages to load if your hard drive is slow, but since they use disk streaming the latency caused by the hard drive might at some point lead to cracks in the sound if you have set the daw's latency too low. But how big is the gap between RAM and HDD? Depends on your programs I suppose, how much data is kept on your hard drive and how much is loaded to your ram. Is an increase from 9ms to 18ms seeking time too much?

I bought a PCI sound card some years ago because it was advertised to achieve 1ms latency. I never got the latency lower than 2ms in ASIO before the sound started cracking. In practice I'm forced to use 7ms with most of my projects, sometimes 10ms when I use a lot of plugins. Maybe it's because of my CPU and RAM then? (dual core @ 3.2GHz , dual channel 4GB @ 800MHz with tightest stable timings)

I would disagree about not paying much attention to the fans, the more quiet ones you can get the better, supposing you get adequate cooling. Depends on whether you are using phones that do not let through background noise or ones that do, or if you are using speakers.

Nice tut! Thank you, I thought it would be worth putting up. Took a while to type though haha.

I have some questions though.
What do you think, are passive monitors and a separate amplifier better than just active speakers?
Do you get better sound quality (or less distortion) by having an audio interface that comes out of your box rather than a separate sound card that you have inside your computer on a PCI slot?
~ In answer to the first question I find that a great deal of Studio Monitors these days are actively driven, that is of course for everyone else they have amps in built to drive the speaker. I have heard from a lot of my gear loving friends that one problem with a passive set up can be hum or hissing problems caused by a passive set up. Some of the reasons for this are: The brand/make of amp doesn't suit the particular monitor well, the cables/connections are not set up properly or have a malfunction or you might be running the amp with settings that don't suit the monitor. Having said that, if you know what you're doing passively driven monitors can be fantastic, you can get greater control over your amp settings, you can use higher quality amps (most active monitors don't use the best amps) and you can easily replace an amp if it's busted.
I have heard many times from the audiophile realm that the more tight your system is the less distortion it gets, that being the less cables/connections/distance everything needs the better. In my honest opinion I think that the difference between running a PCI card vs an external interface wouldn't be something that you could hear easily. I think that in most cases an external is better than PCI for these reasons- the external can have more I/O options with the bigger units, some brands also run things like dithering and come with a virtual program to control the interface on your computer, some really fantastic interfaces like the apogee duos don't have a PCI card version meaning. I'm careful in saying this but I think externals like the duo probably sound a little better than the majority of PCI cards- there are exceptions of course.

On the hard drive part, I wonder is it a bad idea to use raid0? Double the speed, but double the latency as far as i know. Huge sample libraries take ages to load if your hard drive is slow, but since they use disk streaming the latency caused by the hard drive might at some point lead to cracks in the sound if you have set the daw's latency too low. But how big is the gap between RAM and HDD? Depends on your programs I suppose, how much data is kept on your hard drive and how much is loaded to your ram. Is an increase from 9ms to 18ms seeking time too much?
~ Great point, speed is fantastic you need it to both read data and write data (the later for when you take recordings etc) Most people use a solid state or SATA drives because they have decent speeds and storage. However a lot of pro's will use RAID set ups, but seriously many people do not really need it. I would stay away from RAID0 for one reason-with RAID0 it straps together two drives so both drives are recognized as one drive by the computer. This means if you lose one drive...yep everything is lost on the other as well. RAID1 is much more useful to someone in the audio field, this is basically two hard drives that mirror each other to create a redundancy. RAID0 is great for performance but not so good to have by itself. Look into RAID10 is you're serious about this kind of thing it combines the best of both RAID1 and RAID0 in a low latency set up. Arguably though if you can keep those drives internal, external drives run latency due to the inferior communication between drive and computer, even with things like firewire 800, usb 3 you get a lower performance than you do with an internal.

I bought a PCI sound card some years ago because it was advertised to achieve 1ms latency. I never got the latency lower than 2ms in ASIO before the sound started cracking. In practice I'm forced to use 7ms with most of my projects, sometimes 10ms when I use a lot of plugins. Maybe it's because of my CPU and RAM then? (dual core @ 3.2GHz , dual channel 4GB @ 800MHz with tightest stable timings)
~ I would love to know what kind of applications you where running. It's really hard to get an idea of just how much strain everything was placing on your computer overall. I never used a straight 1ms latency, I use around the same so 7ms to 10ms and performance and I don't really run into problems with it. Above 10ms and you run into problems. I noticed you said you ran a lot of plug-ins. This is going to chew into ram, were you running a 64 bit OS and 64 bit DAW?? If you don't run both at 64 bit then your plug-ins can only use around 3 gig of ram! It sucks because I had the same problem! I think that increasing the ram to 6 gig and using 64 bit architecture if you can will greatly improve performance and probably stop your audio glitches.

I would disagree about not paying much attention to the fans, the more quiet ones you can get the better, supposing you get adequate cooling. Depends on whether you are using phones that do not let through background noise or ones that do, or if you are using speakers.
~I would agree with that, as long as you get the cooling your comp needs then you're fine. Quite fans are a must if you're and monitoring a mix. I was running my Imac last summer and that performance had a noticeable drop. I realized the CPU was running to hot because of my closed in desk, the fans couldn't pull in enough cool air as it was all exhaust air. It's just something to be aware of I suppose =D I'm not a veteran with all this though so I may be wrong or in some areas so if you disagree with some points then that's more than okay. Perhaps post it on the thread so we can get a discussion going or to simply have a varied opinion. I hope I helped with your questions though, if you have anymore or if I didn't answer any the way you wanted feel free to post them again =D

Thanks for the answers! though I'm not certain whether I got any wiser from them, seems that people have different views and opinions about these things.. Maybe definite answers don't even exist. My active speaker setup (5.1 surround system) hums a lot, actually I think it has started humming more than it did before, though these were cheap as heck so I can't use these as a comparison for anything. I'm looking forward to purchase a good set of monitors, a major upgrade, that's why I'm so interested in first place.

Currently I'm using win7 64-bit enterprise edition, FL Studio 10 (at least it supports 64-bit plugins if it's not 64-bit itself) and mostly I'm using Kontakt, (the newest version I can get hold of so currently it's Kontakt5 and it has 64-bit VST version that I am using. With Kontakt5 alone and some basic libraries I can get as low as 4-5 ms giving that I'm not using the biggest libraries and only a few instruments. But if I'm using something like a kit from the NI Abbey Road drums series (15GB uncompressed) or Drumkit From Hell Superior (40GB) + Synthogy Ivory piano (taking around 1GB ram, almost 40GB library) + BASiS (7GB) + Electri6ity (25GB) you can imagine how much stress that puts on your rig.

The latency means a great deal to me, I'm often doing music in a quick tempo and I frequently use syncopation so it's not only about the audible delay, from 5 to 10 ms that you will hear the difference, but it's about the responsiveness, you hitting your midi keyboard, hearing the sound, staying in rhythm according to what you here and you'll notice how much better it is to have a latency of 2ms instead of 4ms for instance. Lower latency simply increases playability and I'm definitely not going back to mouse clicking for composing, but will always be recording my playing live, (of course doing some tweaks with the mouse afterwards). Currently I'm often forced to slow down the tempo while I'm recording and move the tempo up again after I've recorded the new part.

My next computer is definitely going to have at least a quad core aiming to around 3,6GHz or more (a 2600k @ 4GHz+ would be awesome) and 8GB of RAM at minimum, probably even 16GB. That is already going to cost a lot, but I'm not ready to start paying like 20 times more per gigabyte for an SSD. Right now I have 650GB+ sample libraries installed on my hard drives, and a few hundred gigs more waiting to be installed once I have freed some space.

At the moment I'm trying to find a good balance of size and sound quality among my virtual instruments.
For instance the drums, it's not wise to use that 40GB library while you're recording if the 2GB version can do the same thing, for the final mix I do like to use the best sounding one though.

So here are some currently on my list:

XLN Audio - Addictive Drums (1.85GB)

NI - Akoustik Piano (16GB), on the other hand any piano sounding better than the General MIDI piano from your OS wavetable will do, even some soundfonts are great.

Bela D Media - Retro Flute (470MB)

Vir2 - BASiS (7.4GB), still too big but the sound is awesome

Ilya Efimov - Nylon Guitar (2.1GB), this one takes ages to load and requires almost 10ms alone for some reason, but it's one of the few nylon guitars that sounds good and definitely a better choice than Vir2 Acoustic Legends HD taking 19GB.

Sample Modeling - The Trombone (700MB)

NI - B4 (65MB) discontinued product, not a sample library, but great

Applied Acoustics Systems - Lounge Lizard EP-3 (70MB), based on physical modeling

For orchestral instruments I'm using VSL orchestra, huge library (250GB) but spread across numerous different instruments and articulations the single patches aren't going to fill your RAM at once. The sound quality is the best, the sounds are dry and they sound even greater with some custom impulse responses.

Compressors and equalizers I will apply only after the track is otherwise complete, during composing process I'm only using IR's but of course they will drag a portion of your system performance too.

Far out haha, I can tell why you're computer may be struggling with latency and buffering issues. They are some big ram using programs, my system would no doubt suffer running all of that as well. Yeah the computer you're thinking of getting next looks like a beast. I want an Apple mac pro next with about 12 gig or so of ram and with that really fast quad they always talk about. Is music a hobby for you or part of a profession? What did you think about the RAID10 set up I mentioned? With a library of 750gig which could very well expand soon I think you could really benefit from it if you don't plan on leaving music any time soon. You're running some great plugs as well, have you heard of EastWest. They run some of the best sample libraries around, awesome sounding stuff!

I used to play music as a Dj.
But since every club started to use Cd's to play music, i stoped.....
I just play music with Vinyl's. But i would like to start making my own sounds. And after i readed your post, i think i know where to start.

this is verryyy gooood man. +rep

Thanks everyone for the feedback-guys if any of you want to add to this post feel free! I'm sure there is stuff I missed or didn't dwell on which means everyone will benefit from it. Would love to see some other tips/suggestions from people about this topic as I believe it's important for people to start out/continue on the right foot =D

Originally Posted by Insidious9

Far out haha, I can tell why you're computer may be struggling with latency and buffering issues. They are some big ram using programs, my system would no doubt suffer running all of that as well. Yeah the computer you're thinking of getting next looks like a beast. I want an Apple mac pro next with about 12 gig or so of ram and with that really fast quad they always talk about. Is music a hobby for you or part of a profession? What did you think about the RAID10 set up I mentioned? With a library of 750gig which could very well expand soon I think you could really benefit from it if you don't plan on leaving music any time soon. You're running some great plugs as well, have you heard of EastWest. They run some of the best sample libraries around, awesome sounding stuff!

Yeah, I guess it's my other computer parts that slow me down.. Though I believe that win7 as such isn't very good for audio production. Anyway I should be able to get that 1ms latency setting to work if I only use one plugin, or standalone for that matter, but no. So the OS probably needs some tweaking, at least I feel like XP did actually better than 7. On the Linux side I get pretty much as low as 0.7ms thanks to the real time kernel that supports some very quick instructions, but unfortunately the opensource daws contain a lot of bugs and the instruments and effects are very limited compared to professional commercial products.

Composing is just a hobby for me, though my friends who have listened to my music say I should sell it and make some big money =). I'm also interested in computers and always build them from parts so upgrading my PC is kind of fun. But I am trying to be rather economical about my choices of parts and at the moment for instance SSD's are sort of out of question, if not one for the OS only.

Well here 2TB hard disk prices start from about 70€ and I think they are rather cheap, for 70€ you get a 5900rpm drive, for 80€ you get a 110MB/s drive, for 90€ it's a 130MB/s and for 105€ you get a Hitachi 7k3000 that should be capable of 207MB/s. That last one seems really cool. At minimum RAID10 takes then 4 drives? Four times 105€ makes 420€ and that's not cheap when you're thinking that it is only for the storage part. My current computer cost 570€ in total... But of course 4TB of effective storage capacity with mirroring and potentially 414MB/s speed outperforms almost any SSD solution in size and some SSD's in performance too. Of course even 2TB SSD's exist, and they reach up to 1.4GB/s in both read and write, but you know, that will cost a just little under 8000€ so the raid10 solution makes more sense than that SSD. Talk about doing the same raid10 with those 2TB SSD's and you're using 4 PCI-express slots and the price would be about 30,000€.

As I said before, it's my hobby, not my life, not my profession. I myself would never rely on hard drives and use them to save important data, I can use DVD's for that with a life expectancy of at least 20 years (or so they say, some give them even a 100 years). And I don't have anything too important on my hard drives at the moment either. Of course I would be a little annoyed if one of them went died on me but well then I buy a new one and most of the data I can download again from my trackers.. So then by leaving out mirroring I'm saving money. If the other drive in a raid0 dies it doesn't mean I couldn't use the other one, though all the data would be gone.

Then for the latency part of the raid0 again, I think I would be doubling the seeking time by using two drives, what difference does it make then to have a separate raid controller compared to a integrated one on a motherboard. Small advantage with the separate perhaps? But again I wouldn't like to spend that money..

Yeah, I have some East West sample libraries, the EWQL symphonic orchestra gold + expansion, nice, but it does not compare to VSL. Symphonic Choirs is cool too, though I don't make much music that would make use of a choir so it's practically wasting space on my hard drive. And I have Colossus, (today replaced with Goliath), 32GB and has a lot of nice instruments, especially the brass is super cool.