Thread: TSA security measures are useless against any real terrorist.

Originally Posted by cdcmaximus

i dont care about physical damage, buildings and infrastucture can be replaced.
3000 lives cant. They are gone forever.
And, as to every US citizen "suffering " for it.
Well, every citizen is a potential target. terrorist dont care if your from NY or Idaho.
All they care about is the word "American"

While this is true...
Look at the numbers.
Terrorism is not a real threat. The erosion of your and my civil liberties is a much greater risk.
Maybe 4000-5000 American's have died from terrorism in the last 10 years.
You know how many people die every day from Cancer?
Heart Disease?
Diabetes?
Murder?
Suicide?

Sorry, the "threat of terrorism" is a very small slice and honestly doesn't even deserve 1/1000th of the attention & money we give to it.

Originally Posted by freu0047

While this is true...
Look at the numbers.
Terrorism is not a real threat. The erosion of your and my civil liberties is a much greater risk.
Maybe 4000-5000 American's have died from terrorism in the last 10 years.
You know how many people die every day from Cancer?
Heart Disease?
Diabetes?
Murder?
Suicide?

Sorry, the "threat of terrorism" is a very small slice and honestly doesn't even deserve 1/1000th of the attention & money we give to it.

your right.
many people die every day of the things u listed. But, none of those people died because they were american. And maybe 4-5 thousand isnt alot to you,
but i dont look at people as "numbers" {but 4-5 thousand is a hell of alot of people, especially if some were relatives and friends}
as to the erosion of our liberties, what really has changed for you?
i myself think that we take many of our freedoms for granted.
the many worries that go thru my head everyday, raising my son, paying the morgage, bills, women, etc.
worries about the stabilty of the govt., and the alleged infringement of my rights are way way down on the list.
the USA is far from perfect, we have many many problems. but i can honestly say, that i have pride in being an american, and there is no other place that i would want to live.

Originally Posted by cdcmaximus

your right.
many people die every day of the things u listed. But, none of those people died because they were american. And maybe 4-5 thousand isnt alot to you,
but i dont look at people as "numbers" {but 4-5 thousand is a hell of alot of people, especially if some were relatives and friends}
as to the erosion of our liberties, what really has changed for you?
i myself think that we take many of our freedoms for granted.
the many worries that go thru my head everyday, raising my son, paying the morgage, bills, women, etc.
worries about the stabilty of the govt., and the alleged infringement of my rights are way way down on the list.
the USA is far from perfect, we have many many problems. but i can honestly say, that i have pride in being an american, and there is no other place that i would want to live.

Thousands of people die every day because they were born in poverty stricken countries in Africa.
They didn't ask to be born in that environment did they?
I don't look in people as "numbers" either, but it is still, there are greater threats..

As for our civil liberties and those of people around the world..

What has changed??

You remember when Abu Ghraib torture thing surfaced and it was revealed that our government
participated in rendition, a practice where we kidnap people and turn them over to regimes who specialize
in torture, I was sure us American people would have a problem with that. We didn't.

Then came the news that we jailed thousands of so-called terrorist suspects, locked them up without
the right to a trial or even the right to confront their accusers in Guantanamo bay. Certainly, we would never stand for that.
We did.

The we discovered the executive branch has been conducting massive, illegal, domestic
surveillance on its own citizens. I at least consoled myself that finally, finally the
American people will have had enough.
Evidentially, we haven't.

In fact, if the people of this country have spoken, the message is we're okay with it all. Torture,
warrantless search and seizure, illegal wiretappings, prison without a fair trial or any trial, war on false
pretenses.
We, as a citizenry, are apparently not offended.

You think we might be-able to protest.. Make a placard and demonstrate at a Presidential or Vice-Presidential
appearance, but we've lost the right to that as well.
The Secret Service can now declare free speech zones to contain, control and, in effect, criminalize protest.
Stop for a second and try to fathom that.
At a presidential rally, parade or appearance, if you have on a supportive t-shirt, you can be there.
If you’re wearing or carrying something in protest, you can be removed.]

This! In the United States of America. This! In the United States of America.

The USA is far from perfect. The world is far from perfect.

In a matter of fact, I am more proud to be a Human being than an American.
And to be honest I must say, I am embarrassed to be an American.

First Freu, let me say this, your avatar is crackin me up!
And, im sorry that your embarrassed to be an american. Hopefully that will change.
You make alot of points in your last post, so as to the whole torture question.
im on the fence with that one. I agree that torture is wrong in general, but i also realize that extreme measures sometimes have to be
used in extreme times.
As to many americans being arlright with it?
many did {like myself, but it was not easy} and many did not.
as to the massive wiretaping? { I assume your refering to the "patriot act"}
i dont think it was as massive as you think. just my op. the vast vast majority of americans had nothing to fear.
look 9/11 changed this country and the world very much. Our {USA} greatest defence in the past, were two big ass oceans.
the pre 9/11 days are gone. we live in a dog eat dog world.
do i wish the world could get along? hell yea!
but thats not reality.
my op. is that as long as we have "organized religion", we will always have conflict.

Originally Posted by cdcmaximus

First Freu, let me say this, your avatar is crackin me up!
And, im sorry that your embarrassed to be an american. Hopefully that will change.
You make alot of points in your last post, so as to the whole torture question.
im on the fence with that one. I agree that torture is wrong in general, but i also realize that extreme measures sometimes have to be
used in extreme times.
As to many americans being arlright with it?
many did {like myself, but it was not easy} and many did not.
as to the massive wiretaping? { I assume your refering to the "patriot act"}
i dont think it was as massive as you think. just my op. the vast vast majority of americans had nothing to fear.
look 9/11 changed this country and the world very much. Our {USA} greatest defence in the past, were two big ass oceans.
the pre 9/11 days are gone. we live in a dog eat dog world.
do i wish the world could get along? hell yea!
but thats not reality.
my op. is that as long as we have "organized religion", we will always have conflict.

Lol thanks. IMAGINE made it for me.

I hope I can one day stop being embarrassed to be an American.
While I do love living in this country and feel very privileged to grow up here, I just have a big problem with our ever-reaching hand.

And while I understand there are extreme circumstances where torture might be ok to some people, it is still wrong.
There is a due process in this country we completely ignore in this circumstances.

And the wiretapping, I don't think it is as small as you think. I fear that on a whim my communications can be intercepted and listened to without my knowledge or consent. Even if I have done nothing wrong and have nothing to fear, I have major major privacy fears.

Shouldn’t we be able to have private lives that aren't pried into by our government? My God! I cannot believe I just asked that question. My head may explode.
The right to privacy is guaranteed under our constitution. But now, thanks to our current Supreme Court, that right is flickering like a candle in the wind. And the breeze is picking up. And at what point will we say, will you say, that provided we do not violate the law other people cannot dictate or know what we do in the privacy of our own homes. Please think about the dying gasps of our precious right to privacy and what our lives might be like if it actually passes away.

As for organized religion. I agree completely. It leads to more problems then anything else.

The biggest problem I see with this is we've given these "terrorists" exactly what they wanted. Did the American revolutionists back down when the British showed up with an Armada and massive amounts of soldiers? Nope. Did Ghandi back down when he was threatened with physical injury, death, and imprisonment? No. Did a majority of Americans bow down to the terrorist threat of a possible future attack? You bet your ass they did. The idea of terrorism is to invoke fear. This fear has enabled a large majority of Americans to give up what we've held sacred for so long, which is our rights. Our freedoms. Our ideas. We as Americans have given all that up for the idea, this illusion, that we can be safe. This safety we seek is an illusion. We as American's have never been safe. We've always had some kind of threat. The evidence of our fear is overwhelming. TSA, Economic Destruction, Patriot Act, Comedy Central censoring South Park, sweeping immigration enforcement, etc., etc. We've completely given up everything our Four Fathers given us. The terrorists have succeeded. They have won. No matter how many countries we bomb, nor how many people we kill in this absurd "War on Terror," they will still have won. Because terrorism is just another idea not of our own.

"Remember, remember
The fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I know of no reason
Why the gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot."
But what of the man? I know his name was Guy Fawkes, and I know that, in 1605, he attempted to blow up the houses of Parliament. But who was he really? What was he like? We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail. He can be caught. He can be killed and forgotten. But four hundred years later an idea can still change the world. I've witnessed firsthand the power of ideas. I've seen people kill in the name of them; and die defending them. But you cannot kiss an idea, cannot touch it or hold it. Ideas do not bleed, it cannot feel pain, and it does not love. And it is not an idea that I miss, it is a man. A man who made me remember the fifth of November. A man I will never forget."

V for Vandetta

On a side note, thousands of American citizens a month die needlessly from malnourishment, various diseases, and murders. 3000 people in one day from a single act is huge and I feel for those families whose loved ones were lost. But I also feel just as strongly for the thousands a month who've died since 9/11 from preventable illness and senseless murders, who could still be alive today. No life is worth more than another. Creating this idea of fear and panic and yearning for safety as the result of one large act, while ignoring the day to day acts that occur in American, is illogical.

I just got back from a trip to Costa Rica and I flew into MCO. The flight was 2.5 hours and passing through customs took 1.5 hours! There are so many redundant procedures!

The TSA does the stupidest things. I have a personal story with them once: I was coming back to America, and I had some jelly I bought over at an exotic middle eastern store. I get stopped and they take it out of my bag, the reason they take it is because it could be toxic, or explosive. The woman who took it kept it for herself instead of disposing it in an incinerator, as they are required to do. I wanted to punch that **** in her face. TSA is a joke, they do nothing. They are there to look like something is being done, because what is actually being done is not for public knowledge.

I agree with much of what is being said here, but as OP is discarding a big piece of public knowledge in one post without even considering that what he is saying could be wrong, i will too discard this, as conspiracy theories. However, the fear of al quaeda is way bigger than the organization itself. But i THINK media has a big part of the guilt for this.

Bottomline, Airport security sucks, and i myself work at an airport... In two days, i could have gotten 50 assault rifles into the security zone, which i could then hide for later, when i was a passenger. Of course my ID-card gives me an advantage, but everything that was required for that was that i had not been arrested for any crimes ever before.