Thread: What do you think we should do about the drugs?

I've had a dark paste, wich i won't discuss here, and the drugs world was a reality in my life back them, thank God i never used any.
From the "light" ones (like marijuana) to the "heavy" ones (like heroin), i've never seen a good thing that came out when drugs were involved, they feed the organized crime and violence, break families and make the government spend an enormous ammount of the taxes the citizens pay to try to heal the addicts.

The worst one is with no doubt the crack, cheap, addictive to the extreme and can harm your health like no other. Crack is a problem at the big cities here in Brazil, you can see at night the people looking like zombies that only care for the next time they will smoke again, they leave home and live for the drug. Recovering from the addiction is almost impossible at some state.

It is horrible to watch the effects at the children, they are sometimes forced to work for the organized crime by their parents, delivering and warning against the police and i haven't even mention when they use the drug too. I've saw a documentary about a child who was not more than 11 yo, he had his leg amputated and was addict in sniffing industrial glue, he had a house but he lived at the streets begging for money and when the reporter asked him what he wanted for the future he said "live on the streets and keeping using drugs"... i felt shame for living in the city that let this life goes to waste.



I understand that some religions make use of drugs in their ritual and the significancy of the marijuana to some cultures, but for me they are still drugs and it should be fought since it is quite impossible to know where faith ends and the dependence begins. Marijuana and other drugs like mushroom tea are harmfull and are addictive, but the ordinary aproach wouldn't be good here, they are too widespread.

This discussion was brought to me in my university once, here drugs are quite common for reasons that aren't convenient to discuss and due to that many people here are very found of the legalization idea. I'm against it, i don't want my kids to have easy access to this stuff and a "cafe" like they have at Netherlands is almost like inviting you to give it a try, i've heard that the legalization lowered the ilegal traffic, but i think the society isn't mentally prepared to it. Not to mention the theory tha light drugs are the gateway for the havier ones, but this isn't scientifically proved yet.

I do not condem anyone for using it, you can do whatever you want with your life, but when it comes to drugs it is dificult to don't afect the people around you.
What do you guys think? Let me see some oppinons. :001_smile:

I am with you. I don't use drugs at all nor have plans on using any. It feels disappointing to see such kind of wasted people who doesn't care what happens next. The problem is lack of education and maturity. They are simply addicted and "who cares?". If there is some way the lessons learned by humanity can be easily transferred to the next generation, then it might be possible to minimize or stop the spread of drugs. Unfortunately for now, the cycle goes on passing to other people. I feel pity for them.

I'd like to point out the problem with parents. Personally I don't like my parents and I got addicted to computer games few years ago and then I got tired; this also applies to drugs. The youth who are not comfortable with their parents tend to seek advice on their friends. Good or bad influence, they would still believe in them. They would then join the club of the addicts.
Parents have the highest responsibility for their children. They should try their best to reach out to their children. Or if parents are not mature enough to determine if drug is good or not, then they are not worthy to be parents. They need REAL help as well as the ones who want to legalize drugs.

Originally Posted by rinvite

The problem is lack of education and maturity. They are simply addicted and "who cares?"

This is indeed the problem with the big masses when it comes to the subject, but i've seen many educated people using drugs, mostly light ones, and i'm sure they know the effects they have. I'm not sure if it is "recreational" or purely addiction, i've never asked one about it, but i do know some people who use it oftem and claim that they can stop at any time.
I think they just don't want to believe in it.

i don't use drugs but i think america should just get it over with and legalize weed.

canada has weed legalized, and they are fine. a few states in the US have it legalized (for medicinal purposes only i think) and they are fine.

marijuana is not a habit forming substance. it is natural and more healthy than regular cigarettes. i'm not promoting or bashing it, but i don't think theres anything wrong with it. why allow nicotine and not marijuana?

as for the more serious drugs, i'm against them. not only are they more dangerous but some of them form actual chemical dependencies (REAL addiction, not just weak personality addictions).

as for "gateway" drug, there are a LOT of people in america who smoke weed and don't do other drugs. it's illegal, but more people i have met in my life smoke up than not. i'm talking normal, otherwise law abiding citizens with jobs.

this sounds like a campaign to legalize weed but i really dont care. my vote would be to legalize but its fine with me staying the way it is.

Already when i was 14, i had some friends who started smoking. And they said they could stop, but after some months, one of them embarrassedly admitted that he was addicted. He couldn't stop. And i think that one thing leads to another, so just crossing a line and starting smoking makes you more likely to cross another line and start using drugs.

But back to my friend. When he couldn't take more cigarettes from his parents, he started stealing from shops, mostly because he couldn't buy it. And by that he got involved with others who was a bad influence at him, and at the age of 15, he have already tried hash. (dunno what the right English word is, but i hope you understand what i mean. Its one of the mildest drugs and you smoke it) And this is at the age of 15 in a very rich country (Norway)

And what I think could have stopped this from happening? Very little. Making it illegal to sell cigarettes would have been a solution. Also, if his parents had not smoked, this might also been avoided.

To stop the access of drugs is a good alternative too. But of course, that would be close to impossible. So I think the best solution is eduacation, combined with less access to drugs. I think fewer and fewer will use drugs in Norway, because everyone knows that it's bad. And after we figured out the consequences, the use of drugs have been smaller in Norway, and eventually, close to no one in Norway is using it.

In brazil, I understand this is more difficult. I think that the main focus should be to educate all, and try to offer them a job. Secondly, the police need to strike the groups who are selling and smuggling the drugs. Also, education of the parents may be smart.

Originally Posted by tininja

i don't use drugs but i think america should just get it over with and legalize weed.

canada has weed legalized, and they are fine. a few states in the US have it legalized (for medicinal purposes only i think) and they are fine.

marijuana is not a habit forming substance. it is natural and more healthy than regular cigarettes. i'm not promoting or bashing it, but i don't think theres anything wrong with it. why allow nicotine and not marijuana?

as for the more serious drugs, i'm against them. not only are they more dangerous but some of them form actual chemical dependencies (REAL addiction, not just weak personality addictions).

as for "gateway" drug, there are a LOT of people in america who smoke weed and don't do other drugs. it's illegal, but more people i have met in my life smoke up than not. i'm talking normal, otherwise law abiding citizens with jobs.

this sounds like a campaign to legalize weed but i really dont care. my vote would be to legalize but its fine with me staying the way it is.

I just want to say that it is proven that cigarettes is more addictive then heroin. I think that says it all. Cigarettes with much nicotine should be make illegal.

I think society would be much better served if drugs were not illegal at all, especially when you consider that some of the most harmful drugs are legal and readily available.

The only reason criminal organizations are involved with drugs is because they are illegal. Legalization and a supply that can meet demand will remove most, if not all, of the criminal element. Look at US prohibition of the 30's and the effect that ending it had on bootlegging (drug dealing). Criminalization also turns otherwise law-abiding and contributing members of society into criminals, oftentimes ruining their lives in the process. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people can be jailed for simply consuming something. That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

Also, consider that numerous dangerous and highly addictive drugs are readily available, legal and socially acceptable. Of all popularly abused drugs, I would say that alcohol does the most damage. This can easily be seen in the number of alcohol-related domestic abuse cases, accidents and fatalities each year. I can't think of anyone I know that hasn't been affected by an alcohol-related fatality. I won't even get into smoking deaths or rampant prescription drug abuse.

This statement is absolutely false:

Originally Posted by Fractal

Marijuana and other drugs like mushroom tea are harmfull and are addictive

Neither of those drugs mentioned are harmful nor addictive. Of course, there is a psychological addiction, literally everything is psychologically addicting, like torrenting, but there is no evidence that either of those are physically addicting. Actually we develop a very rapid immunity to psylocybin, the most used psychoactive mushroom, and LSD, so physical dependence may not even be possible.

As for harmful, They are among the most benign drugs we abuse. I don't believe there has ever been a recorded death due to Marijuana or Psylocibin overdose. Both recreational drugs are also used in medicine. Marijuana's medicinal value is well documented and psilocybin has long been experimented with in psychology as well as medicine, with some MDs strongly believing in the benefits of psilocybin therapy in terminal patients.

If we as a society are to take a hard stance on drugs, then we should do so across the board. It seems incredibly hypocritical to allow the consumption of alcohol and nicotine when both are very addicting and extremely difficult to kick. Whereas some of the most abused recreational drugs, marijuana and psilocybin, are so incredibly benign and non-addicting.

However, I very strongly believe that it is not in the government's mandate to dictate what i choose to consume. Drug laws are among the most ridiculous laws in existence and have done nothing but create vast criminal organizations and incarcerate innocent victims. Not to mention that initial Marijuana and Opium prohibition largely targeted ethnic communites, the Chinese with one and the blacks and Hispanics with the other.

Instead of criminalizing drugs, the government should be educating the public about their use and abuse, which would likely lead to more responsible use.

@tininja:

The gateway drug is still just a theory, not proved.

IMO cannabis is more dangerous than cigarretes, they affect your mind, making your memory shorter and your thinking slower in long term, if you keep smoking regulary.
Look at this quote from wikipedia:

While a study in New Zealand of 79 lung-cancer patients suggested daily cannabis smokers have a 5.7 times higher risk of lung cancer than non-users, another study of 2252 people in Los Angeles failed to find a correlation between the smoking of cannabis and lung, head or neck cancers. Some studies have also found that moderate cannabis use may protect against head and neck cancers, as well as lung cancer

Untill now, there is no way i or you can tell for certain that marijuana is worse or better than cigarretes for physical health, but they are a way of criminals make cash and i don't want anyone from my family using it. Thats why i i'm against legalization, it would make too easy to get access to this type of drug.

If you want to know more about the gateway theory, look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway...heory#Cannabis


@roger09
LSD is just one drug, in Amazon there is a sect called "santo daime". The santo daime is a drink made with a lianna, it is used in religious rituals, but a couple of years ago, the government had a trouble: the indians were becoming addict to it, and many of them were leaving the villages to live for the drug. There was a big scandal when they discovered a spiritual guide was selling it to them, and the santo daime is legal here, for religious use.
And the medicinal marijuana you talk about is to relive big and constant pains, like a terminal cancer, that last long and can't be threated with morphine (wich is a drug made from coke). The name is Marinol and it is active ingredient isolated. You don't smoke it and the effects are very low, you can't satisfy your desires with it.

And yes, achohool kills many. That's why some Islam strands forbidden you from drinking it and it is included in the sharia at some places.

I found this at a anti-drug website from the US government, so this may be suspicious, but i will post anyway:

Legalization has been tried before—and failed miserably. Alaska’s experiment with Legalization in the 1970s led to the state’s teens using marijuana at more than twice the rate of other youths nationally. This led Alaska’s residents to vote to re-criminalize marijuana in 1990.

The Legalization Lobby claims that the “European Model” of the drug problem is successful. However, since legalization of marijuana in Holland, heroin addiction levels have tripled

The Legalization Lobby claims that America’s prisons are filling up with users. Truth is, only about 5 percent of inmates in federal prison are there because of simple possession. Most drug criminals are in jail—even on possession charges—because they have plea-bargained down from major trafficking offences or more violent drug crimes.

source here: http://www.justice.gov/dea/demand/speakout/

The DEA is one of the most biased sources one can find in regards to the drug debate. Just read these excerpts and look at how they're worded:

Fact 6: Legalization of drugs will lead to increased use and increased levels of addiction. Legalization has been tried before, and failed miserably. Legalization has been tried before—and failed miserably. Alaska’s experiment with Legalization in the 1970s led to the state’s teens using marijuana at more than twice the rate of other youths nationally. This led Alaska’s residents to vote to re-criminalize marijuana in 1990.

Will lead to increased levels of addiction? Where are the links/statistics to support such a claim, and why does the DEA not cite or link to any peer-reviewed papers for support? Because I can find plenty of scientific sources to show that the active ingredient of marijuana, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), is not addicting. This entire "Fact" 6 is highly suspect, as Fractal mentioned.

Fact 8: Alcohol has caused significant health, social, and crime problems in this country, and legalized drugs would only make the situation worse. The Legalization Lobby claims drugs are no more dangerous than alcohol. But drunk driving is one of the primary killers of Americans. Do we want our bus drivers, nurses, and airline pilots to be able to take drugs one evening, and operate freely at work the next day? Do we want to add to the destruction by making drugged driving another primary killer?

Logical fallacy; arguing by slippery slope does not make for a good argument. If the DEA's argument is that drugs in general are bad because it increases the chances of someone operating something important (a car, a bus, etc) under the influence, why not address banning alcohol? Instead, somehow they go on to talk about how marijuana legalization will open the floodgates to massive accidents (again, with no citations of studies). It's their claim, they have the burden of proof.

I could refute each and every one of those 10 "Facts" but I thought two should suffice to show how absolutely loaded the DEA's statements are. Truth is, they need drugs to be illegal to exist; if marijuana is legal, no doubt it will push out many of the illegal dealers, and no doubt that the DEA's marijuana response departments will lose a lot of funding.

But back on topic, I am highly for legalizing marijuana. I don't smoke it but I respect the right of my fellow citizens to use marijuana, as scientific research shows it to be relatively harmless. What the anti-legalization side in the U.S. doesn't tell you is that cigarettes and alcohol are so much more harmful than marijuana, so isn't it hypocritical that these two drugs (and they are drugs, as both have active ingredients that are addicting) are legal, but marijuana is not?

As roger09 has already mentioned, making marijuana illegal just sets up huge drug trafficking operations, mainly from Mexico, and instead of that money circulating in the U.S. to bolster local economies, it goes to the Mexican drug lords. Busting one drug lord just means you've cleared the weeds for one day, and the next day, a new head will pop up to replace its predecessor.

The root of the problem is parental and community responsibility, or lack thereof, something apparently endemic of American culture. If you don't want your kids smoking marijuana, cigarettes, or drinking copious amounts of alcohol, then talk to your kids about them. Form bonds with them and educate them about the physical (and often times psychological) consequences of the drugs.