Thread: Is ignorance at the root of US political unrest?

I recently stirred up some debate on another thread when I wrote "Unfortunately, US citizens are victims to their own ignorance." Obviously this is an over generalization, but in the context that I was arguing I thought it was just. Anyway, I just saw a relevant article on a Harris Poll, which asked questions about what Americans thought about president Barack Obama. I thought it was telling. Here's an excerpt:

There are – no surprise here – huge differences between what Republicans and Democrats believe. Majorities of Republicans believe that President Obama:

* Is a socialist (67%)
* Wants to take away Americans’ right to own guns (61%)
* Is a Muslim (57%)
* Wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one world government (51%); and
* Has done many things that are unconstitutional (55%).

Also large numbers of Republicans also believe that President Obama:



* Resents America’s heritage (47%)
* Does what Wall Street and the bankers tell him to do (40%)
* Was not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president (45%)
* Is the “domestic enemy that the U.S. Constitution speaks of” (45%)
* Is a racist (42%)
* Want to use an economic collapse or terrorist attack as an excuse to take dictatorial powers (41%)
* Is doing many of the things that Hitler did (38%).

Even more remarkable perhaps, fully 24% of Republicans believe that “he may be the Anti-Christ” and 22% believe “he wants the terrorists to win.”

While few Democrats believe any of these things, the proportions of Independents who do so are close to the national averages.

One big surprise is that many more Republicans (40%) than Democrats (15%) believe the president does what Wall Street and the bankers tell him to do.

Differences by education

These replies are also strongly correlated with education. The less education people have had the more likely they are to believe all of these statements. Consider these differences between those with no college education and those with post-graduate education:

* He is a socialist (45% and 20%)
* He wants to take away Americans’ right to own guns (45% and 19%)
* He is a Muslim (43% and 9%)
* He was not born in the United States so is not eligible to be president (32% and 7%)
* He is a racist (28% and 9%)
* He is anti-American (27% and 9%)
* He is doing many of the things Hitler did (24% and 10%).

There's nothing quite like a little bit of heated debate to pass the time, so tell us what you think. Having said that, express your ideas, and try not to take things personally.

Disclosure: I am Canadian. I respect the US, and believe that their grand experiment has been a success overall.

Yes?... I think people in every country are "victims of their own ignorance". Why exactly are you putting the spotlight on us? Is it because we're in the most dominant country in the world or is it because it's easy to jump on the bandwagon and bash us like everyone else. This isn't really a good topic for debate and I doubt this will go anywhere.

Originally Posted by John_Locke

Yes?... I think people in every country are "victims of their own ignorance". Why exactly are you putting the spotlight on us? Is it because we're in the most dominant country in the world or is it because it's easy to jump on the bandwagon and bash us like everyone else. This isn't really a good topic for debate and I doubt this will go anywhere.

It's not about bashing at all. Everyone should care about what goes on in the US, since they exert so much influence world wide. But the citizens of any nation should be willing to examine themselves in an effort to understand how they can improve their respective countries. Are you not alarmed by this poll? I'm sure you don't want to metaphorically sweep your problems under the rug? The US is experiencing one of its most ineffectual periods in history with respect to domestic policy. The US Senate has been at a stand still since Obama took office (with a few recent exceptions). Why? This thread is about exploring these themes, not bashing.

I'm certainly not trying to pretend that Canada is without problems. But how many people here are interested in Canada's problems? Do you want to talk about the global movement against our seal hunt? Or how we'll be pulling out of Afghanistan in 2011, and all the political fallout associated with that? Or how we incarcerated and persecuted muslim Canadian terror suspects who turned out to have no affiliation with terror groups at all? Or how our government prorogued parliament for 3 months just to avoid answering to questions about what they knew about Canadian forces turning over Afghan detainee's to Afghan authorities knowing that they would be tortured? Who really cares about this except for Canadians? It's not like Canada exerts pressure on the US, it works the other way around. And for a while now I've been watching the bitterly partisan US style politics leak into my country, so this is a topic of interest for me.

Edit: In retrospect, making this thread a poll probably wasn't the best idea.

Originally Posted by s2cuts

The US is experiencing one of its most ineffectual periods in history with respect to domestic policy. The US Senate has been at a stand still since Obama took office (with a few recent exceptions). Why? This thread is about exploring these themes, not bashing.

O... I missed the part about policy, I just saw you posting a poll that showed how dumb americans felt about Obama. If you had posted something more relevant to the topic you originally wanted to discuss then there wouldn't have been any confusion. Also, I think the people in other countries should be more interested in doing things to better their own country, not focusing on the titanic that has just hit an iceberg. We're sinking, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to go down with us. I'm not sure if your country has been hit as well and you're right I don't care, but it's something new and thats the only thing that can give life to this boring topic of politics.

Ignorance due to brainwashing, fear mongering and a perhaps a lack of education. The lies told on TV in this country are quite outrageous, along with the hypocrisy. As your quote indicates, the majority of the properly educated members of the country can somewhat tell the lies and BS from the truth. The sad fact is that many cannot.

These tactics are primarily used for two reasons. 1) As the poll shows, they seem to work. 2) It allows them not to have a debate on the ideas/issues but instead undermine the other side. Many of the partisan politics in this country violate the rules of this forum.

As for the specifics outlined in the poll, I will not delve into opinions on them. None are really due to anything other than fear mongering and hypocrisy in my opinion.

Back to your original point, I can see how given all of this it is easy to say Americans are ignorant. There are many people here who are not, the problem is that the ones that are tend to stick out more. Don't trust the polls too much, they are easy to manipulate and there are large groups of people who refuse to answer polls (myself being one).

I must agree with John_Locke though, ignorance is a world-wide issue. I don't have a problem with people pointing it out, just understand that we probably think the same about your country. While you are focused on the ignorant members of the US, the smart ones will come steal from you and drag you down the vortex of suck (we excel at this).

I am not sure that many of the educated people in the US are really shocked by this poll. It just further confirms what many of us already know.

Disclaimer: I am a cynical, educated American that dislikes most politics and politicians on both sides of the aisle and I tend to rant.

Originally Posted by John_Locke

I just saw you posting a poll that showed how dumb americans felt about Obama.

Americans are deemed dumb by you if they dont think Obama is bad for the country? then consider me a dumbass.

*Is a socialist (67%)

I agree, and its not a question...he (Obama) has told us this much. Here's a quote from Obama while campaigning:"I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody."

* Wants to take away Americans’ right to own guns (61%)

I believe he would like to, but knows he could never take away guns from Americans. But he will do his best to at least let the government (cause they know whats best for you) have some control in that arena. Example: DC handgun ban.

*Is a Muslim (57%)

He went to a christian church for 20 years...although the preacher is a America hating racist, but thats beside the point.
The point, is that he's not muslim.

* Wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one world government (51%); and
* Has done many things that are unconstitutional (55%).

Yes, he has done some unconstitutional things, and a One World Government is something that progressives would love. But whether he wants it or not, it isn't going to happen.

* Does what Wall Street and the bankers tell him to do (40%)

Unfortunately, I think the vast majority of politicians do this. They take bribes and give tax cuts to companies that push money their way. So I believe that wall street, big Companies, & Unions play a role.
This is probably something S2Cuts believes as well...since he wants campaign finance reform...which is something I would like as well, though I dont know how it could properly be done.

* Was not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president (45%)

He was born in Hawaii, his birth certificate proves it.

* Is the “domestic enemy that the U.S. Constitution speaks of” (45%)

While I believe he is bad for America...I wouldn't go that far.

* Is a racist (42%)

A little.
I think blacks are more racist then whites.
The reason why I said "a little" is because of the whole Cambridge Police incident.

* Want to use an economic collapse or terrorist attack as an excuse to take dictatorial powers (41%)

It was Obama's Chief of Staff who said it best "never let a serious crises go to waste"...need I say more.

“he may be the Anti-Christ” and believe “he wants the terrorists to win.”

Nope.
If the terrorists win, that would mean the US is destroyed...which would also mean he would lose his power, which he doesn't want to happen.

Now as far as the whole education thing goes...to me that really doesn't mean much. As most Professors and Universities are far left.
and the younger the student is, the more likely he or she is to believe you...indoctrination is a dangerous thing. No, I'm not saying all these people were indoctrinated, I'm just stating a fact.

Originally Posted by Torrent User #119

Americans are deemed dumb by you if they dont think Obama is bad for the country? then consider me a dumbass.

Sigh... I said they are dumb because they believe he is a Muslim, racist, anti-american, doing many things that Hitler did, and may be the anti-christ. I think you should have a legit reason for believing these things before you start making outrageous assumptions.

Originally Posted by Torrent User #119

A little.
I think blacks are more racist then whites.
The reason why I said "a little" is because of the whole Cambridge Police incident.

Uh oh... Obama is a little racist? What exactly is a little racist? Either you're racist or you're not. It's not fair to dump him into the racist category because you feel that blacks are more racist than whites, which is untrue imo, like those are the only two races in the US.

Originally Posted by Torrent User #119

The reason why I said "a little" is because of the whole Cambridge Police incident.

Is that because he said that they acted stupidly? He said that about people who he felt were racist. I'm not saying they were, but if I thought so I would say that they were stupid as well because I think all racism is stupid.

Originally Posted by John_Locke

Sigh... I said they are dumb because they believe he is a Muslim, racist, anti-american, doing many things that Hitler did, and may be the anti-christ. I think you should have a legit reason for believing these things before you start making outrageous assumptions.

What outrageous assumptions are you talking about???


and I "dumped him into the racist category" because he went a a church for 20 years with a preacher who is clearly a racist...you dont listen to someone for that long and not have it rub off on you.
Which is something everyone got to see first hand with the Cambridge Police incident. Most people would have jumped to the conclusion that the cops did the right thing...But Obama took sides with the black guy and said the cops acted stupidly before he fully even knew what had happened.
Then later is was revealed that not only was the cop not a racist, but that he taught racial profiling classes.
That incident alone tells you a lot about Obama.

And yes, my personal opinion is that blacks are more racist then whites, because they think they have a bone to pick with us because my great great grandfather might have had a slave.
If blacks truly wanted to put racism to bed, then they should be advocating to get rid of things like Black History month...but they dont.
and the reason I didn't bring up Mexicans/Asians/ect, is because they weren't slaves, the blacks were.

Originally Posted by Torrent User #119

Now as far as the whole education thing goes...to me that really doesn't mean much. As most Professors and Universities are far left.

But isn't that just the point. Those who are smarter, who are better educated, who have a better grasp of history, who better understand economics, who are better able to assess politics and policy tend to agree with more liberal principals? It's sort of like the enlightened versus those in the dark, no? Who does it make sense to side with, those who are credentialed and tend to know what they're talking about (professors and researchers), or those who don't (laypeople)?