Thread: The Death Penalty

Hello T-I

I am very happy to start the Brain Stew section, really glad that it's now active. I was hoping to talk about a subject that is considered very sensitive to a lot of people. That subject is the death penalty.

For a long time in my life I used to consider the death penalty to be a good idea, the main reason was that when I was younger I seemed to be ignorant to the fact that innocent people could be jailed. Now I am older, it seems my views are starting to shift, however I do think the media may have had an inherent affect on me (The life of David Gale is a prime example). So I have now started to think that maybe the death penalty should maybe removed from the different legal systems around the world.

However I do still have some pro-death views. The main of which is that in the long run it will cost the tax payer a lot more money to keep a prisoner alive than to have him executed. The one I used to share with the pro-death activists is that the inmates probably deserve it, however I have now started to realise that it maybe isn't my place to say who deserves what.

I do believe the pro-life side is easier to talk about, however I am starting to go on a bit.



So my discussion is this:


What do you think about the death penalty and why?

I would like to expand on this to ask would you like the death penalty laws to be changed? This doesn't just account for countries where there are active death penalty laws. I would like the opinions of people to be voiced where they think the death penalty should also be introduced.

I want to expand on this a bit more... but in America, the constitution states that we have an inherent right to life. As such, I can't support it from a legal standpoint because, here at least, it is unconstitutional.

I'm going to ruminate on this subject, do some reading, and revisit it soon.

Whether or not the person in question deserves to be in prison should be separated into a different argument because it has other social and judicial concerns. From a sustainability perspective, executing people is much more helpful because less resources will be spent on them for the execution compared to their life in prison.

1: Why should i pay taxes just so a guy who killed my family can get food in prison
2: Let them back on the street and they are even worse than when they came in
3:Give death penalty more easily for all i care, this way they will get more scared and less crimes will be comited.And maybe by this i will worry less about my GF getting asssaulted on the way to the mall
4: A guy kills 10 people in cold blood just because he likes it and the state is not allowed to kill him instead but should give him a nice bed , food,activities instead. And maybe if he is tough get himself a bitch in prison. In 1 year he will get used to prison and won't give a shit about what he did with those people

Originally Posted by damnfinevulcan

From a sustainability perspective, executing people is much more helpful because less resources will be spent on them for the execution compared to their life in prison.

contrary to what you are saying it actually costs more money to execute people (E.G in California they get 7 automatic appeals) due to how complex, misguided and how long a trial over execution can go, if it was just simply killing the person it would likely be cheaper however it is never as simple as that. It could take more than 10 years and cost the state hundreds of thousands of dollars on a single person with all the re-trials and whatnot. Not to mention how many cases where the guilty would be found innocent as far as 7++ years later. I am strongly against any death penalty no matter how 'bad' the person appears to be. There is always another side.

Originally Posted by Balauru

1: Why should i pay taxes just so a guy who killed my family can get food in prison
2: Let them back on the street and they are even worse than when they came in
3:Give death penalty more easily for all i care, this way they will get more scared and less crimes will be comited.And maybe by this i will worry less about my GF getting asssaulted on the way to the mall
4: A guy kills 10 people in cold blood just because he likes it and the state is not allowed to kill him instead but should give him a nice bed , food,activities instead. And maybe if he is tough get himself a bitch in prison. In 1 year he will get used to prison and won't give a shit about what he did with those people

Exactly! 100% spot on imo! +rep
-Most prisoners commit crimes after they've been free'd because they have no where else to go
-Governments keeps moaning about overcrowded prisons. Then free some up using the death penalty. Don't mean to sound harsh but its true.
-If you kill innocent men, women or children in cold blood then you deserve whats coming to you, not free food, warm bed, gym, showers etc.

Thats just my opinion

I would love to say it's easy to choose from the "less resources" point of view but I can't. I don't like to think of people getting a death penalty easily. I mean even if someone killed a person violently, does it mean they can't change? Some people just don't though. Here where I live, something shocked the whole country when a mother and her boyfriend basically tortured the woman's 5 year old daughter until they found her dead in the basement and tried to hide it. They would do things like shooting her with a pellet gun, and afterwards pointed the finger at each other. Now they are trying to get a reduction in sentence because they say she stayed in the basement on her own to hide from them. Point is that here in Canada we have no death penalty, because of fears of wrongful conviction. If you feel as mad as I do reading the little snippet above of these people (I have a 2 year old and a 5 month old) then you would probably say they should have been executed as soon as convicted right? Well those are the easy ones. I worry about the ones that are not so easy to prove beyond a doubt. Look at stories like David Milgaard...he was found guilty and for later exonerated of a rape and murder of a woman. Emotions play such a big part and even as I ramble I am trying to figure out how to say I guess I believe it is okay in certain circumstances? This thread has me feeling like I am arguing against myself.
I am sure I will love to read on everyone (anyone I haven't confused) else's opinions, which may help me come to a definate answer myself.

Originally Posted by Balauru

3:Give death penalty more easily for all i care, this way they will get more scared and less crimes will be comited.And maybe by this i will worry less about my GF getting asssaulted on the way to the mall

I have read numerous articles etc where it says that the death penalty not only doesn't deter crime, but acts to increase it.

I found a graph showing the links between murders and execution rate:



(Not the most formal of plots I know).

Statistically it does insinuate that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent for serious crime that would warrant such a punishment.



Agreed with Ethicks about the cost point of view. After a bit of reading it does become clear that the trials, death row accommodation etc it starts to become less cost-effective.

I've switched back and forth on this one. Ethicks is right with the resources aspect. An often misconception with the death sentence is that the person gets convicted, he goes into solitary confinement, the next day he gets his last meal, and he gets killed, saving the state large amounts of money. On the contrary it takes a long time, 10+ years, for a person on death row to be put down and unlike the inmates with a normal sentence these guys raise a lot more legal hell and don't accept there sentence.

I will do some research of my own and post back later but here are the things I am pondering right now.

1. As far as clearing the prisons go. If there were a death penalty by what percentage would the number of inmates be reduced?

2. The exact cost of keeping a death row inmate. Appeals and all.

3. Estimated number of innocent men sentenced to death.

4. Are there statistics on weather or not having the death penalty in your state prevents certain crimes.

As I see this argument the majority of the solid reasons go against the death penalty. I do not support it.

However this is a two sided argument one of them being heavily philosophical. Does a person who does certain evil deserve to die? The philosophical aspect of this argument is very powerful and cannot be overlooked. This is why I cannot blame those who support it as their philosophy may be very different from mine.

I will expand on this later but for now I have to work :(