Thread: Do you believe that we were created by someone on a higher dimensional universe?

I've been thinking about our recent topic on my philosophy class and would really like to know what others think. If we exist on a universe with three dimensions and that we can also create/destroy things which are 3D, 2D, and 1D, is it possible that someone created us and existed on a higher dimension and that creator was also created by someone on a much higher dimension and so on?

Then the question would arise, is there a top? If so who created them... or does it loop back round to the "circle of life"? If so that is a paradox and how on earth does that work lol.

My direct answer to your question, would be infact what i put in the "do you beleive in god" thread which was:

The way I see it wether God/Gods/Pink Unicorns exist or not is unimportant. My logic is based on a few simple options:

1) Deterministic, God exists/God doesnt exist. We don't have free will so everything we do is pre-determined and there is nothing we can do to change it. We just follow a script that we are unaware of or something created by a God which has less talent than those which are religious give him.

2) God doesn't exist and we have free will. Worshipping God is usless other than the value that the individual puts into it thereby giving them hope and such. We can ultimately choose to beleive in God or not however are doing nothing than mind over matter that can be acheived by focus/effort on anything. There is no benefit in beleiving other than that.

3) God exists and we have free will. We have the choice to choose what we want to do with our lives and can worship or not worship at our leasure. In this option I beleive the fact people beleive in multiple things is the best option, as if God had gone to the extreme effort of creating free will... how much of a waste would it have been if everyone did and thought the same? Living a good life may make a difference, this however is based on there being an afterlife which is another assumption.

Originally Posted by SneerRolts

Then the question would arise, is there a top? If so who created them... or does it loop back round to the "circle of life"? If so that is a paradox and how on earth does that work lol.

My direct answer to your question, would be infact what i put in the "do you beleive in god" thread which was:

Hmmmm. The reason I did not place this in that thread is because my question expands beyond the existence of God/s. Let's forget about anything that has free will or intelligence. Let's forget about life because it seems that life is just a product of a lucky reaction of compounds and elements under the right conditions. Let's put it this way. In our current universe, all processes results to things with up to three dimensions. So it is possible that our universe was a result of a process from a 4 dimensional universe or even higher?

Um, 3 dimensions? I thought our universe has at least 4, since time is usually considered a dimension, in the same way that length, breadth and depth are considered dimensions.

And although I'm no physicist (hell, I'm a bassist - that means I have trouble thinking about anything except whether I'm playing in the pocket, or destroying the groove ), there seems to be lots of evidence that our universe has many other dimensions that we can't perceive directly but nevertheless do exist.

Or so my physicist friend told me, and he seemed pretty convincing. Then again, he also told me that there are different kinds of infinities, and some infinities are demonstrably larger than other infinities; at this point I had the MEGO experience of a lifetime. As a bassist my maths basically extends to "1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +" ; on a good day it extends to various subdivisions of those same numbers; on a really good day I can even sometimes manage 1,2,3-1,2,3-1,2-1,2, and play "Take Five" or "Living in the Past. Let's not talk about bad days ...

Anyway, back to your question: I suppose it's theoretically possible that we were created by something from a higher dimension, but it's the old "angels on a pin" problem. Proof of a god or gods seems to be beyond rational possibility. You either believe, or you don't; proof doesn't come into it. People considerably smarter than myself (I'm a bassist, remember?) have been trying to prove or disprove the existence of God for thousands of years. To the best of my knowledge, not one proof or disproof has ever stood up to rational argument in all that time. Sure plenty of people have claimed to prove it one way or the other, but for every claim there is always some counter-argument, and the whole damn thing starts all over again.

And you are asking us to not only prove the existence of God, but asking us whether he/she/it comes from a higher dimension. You might as well ask us to discuss whether he/she/it comes from Manchester or from Oodnadatta; it would make just as much sense.

Speaking personally I consider myself a sort of watered-down atheist. I really, really, really doubt that there is a God, but I have no conclusive proof that there isn't one. And without such a proof of the non-existence of God I can't consider myself a hard-core atheist.

I believe that hard-core atheists are no different from hard-core believers - they are both essentially making religious statements, yet they do not have the necessary logical proof required to support their positions. To say "there is no God" is just as much a religious statement as to say "there is a God", and the proof for either statement simply does not exist. Without proof there can only be belief, not knowledge.

As for knowledge of where this putative God might come from ... let's not go there, OK?

Originally Posted by darktorrent

Hmmmm. The reason I did not place this in that thread is because my question expands beyond the existence of God/s. Let's forget about anything that has free will or intelligence. Let's forget about life because it seems that life is just a product of a lucky reaction of compounds and elements under the right conditions. Let's put it this way. In our current universe, all processes results to things with up to three dimensions. So it is possible that our universe was a result of a process from a 4 dimensional universe or even higher?

If there is a God it would be logical to assume that he/she/it/they are based in a higher dimension, heaven for instance isn't in this one nor is hell. However its a big if.... it would be just as logical to say that there was one dimension that expanded outwards, reaching the limits of what it could do until another dimension appeared and so on and so forth. creation can be from below as well as from above... hence evolution and the such.

Your initial question has a faulty premise. You claim we can create/destroy things that are 2D and 1D. But we actually can't. Writing on paper you might think of as 2D, but it's actually 3D atoms. Same for what you see on a computer screen, atoms rearranging and producing different wavelengths of light so that you see something you perceive as 2D. We live in a 3-Dimensional world and can only manipulate other things in that 3-Dimensional world. Technically, it's 4-D, and we are 4-D beings, but that's not that important. And that fourth dimension is not time, especially since time should not be considered a dimension. You can move through the other dimensions however you want, right? You can't move through time how you want. You are on a fixed path that you have not real control over. Not only that, but there's no direct way to measure time. We measure time through other events taking place, gears turning or unstable atoms decaying. Space is measured easily and directly. The fourth dimension would also be spatial, and it would be the warping of our normal 3-D space by gravity. That was Einstein's theory, and it's widely accepted right now, just not always well understood. So there may be other, higher dimensions, but arguing that a being in that higher dimension could create something in a lower dimension has no basis. We don't create things in lower dimensions, we just think we do. By the way, I am a physicist, or at least studying to become one.

I love these dilemmas, could literally talk for hours/days about it!

I do like to choose a side and the one most appealing to me is this 'big bang' theory. Atleast theres a probability there and i like probabilitys!

This goes onto the other theory which i like the 'chaos' theory which suggests anything anywhere is possible.. just some things are less likely than others ie i can suddenly grow wings is possible but the chances are astronomical. Take this theory further and you could say if anything is possible then well i guess you could say theres a possibility of higher dimensional beings!

Originally Posted by DaegonPhyn

Your initial question has a faulty premise. You claim we can create/destroy things that are 2D and 1D. But we actually can't. Writing on paper you might think of as 2D, but it's actually 3D atoms. Same for what you see on a computer screen, atoms rearranging and producing different wavelengths of light so that you see something you perceive as 2D. We live in a 3-Dimensional world and can only manipulate other things in that 3-Dimensional world. Technically, it's 4-D, and we are 4-D beings, but that's not that important. And that fourth dimension is not time, especially since time should not be considered a dimension. You can move through the other dimensions however you want, right? You can't move through time how you want. You are on a fixed path that you have not real control over. Not only that, but there's no direct way to measure time. We measure time through other events taking place, gears turning or unstable atoms decaying. Space is measured easily and directly. The fourth dimension would also be spatial, and it would be the warping of our normal 3-D space by gravity. That was Einstein's theory, and it's widely accepted right now, just not always well understood. So there may be other, higher dimensions, but arguing that a being in that higher dimension could create something in a lower dimension has no basis. We don't create things in lower dimensions, we just think we do. By the way, I am a physicist, or at least studying to become one.

Well said. After reading your post, I'm pretty much convinced that we won't be able to manipulate or measure anything else except those that exist with the same number of dimensions as the manipulator or the one to make measurements. I've been trying to brainstorm about the idea of mutidimensional multiverse along with its consequences. I guess if God exists, then he really created us in His own image and He also have the same number of dimensions. That's if He really exists.

Hells yeah, we are to dumb to create ourselves and theres no way we came from an explosion.
This within itself never made any sense to me. How can a walking talking thought provoking
creature come from an explosion? WTF are you smoking and let me hit it next.