Thread: Instant teleportation . . . would you?

At first glance the idea of instant teleportation might seem like a great idea, but I've always opted that if it ever does exist I will not be using it. The reason being that the only way I see this to be a possible thing (without folding space) would be to literally take down a full record (I'm talking on a molecular level) of how you are put together. Then the original would be recreated in the location it was meant to end up. For the new you that just appeared in the other teleporter, you would be none the wiser to the fact that you were actually a clone, with all of the original memories of your former model (who by the way was eviscerated by a teleportation device). The worst part is there is absolutely no way to know if this would be what was happening! The reason being that dead men really do tell no tales, and therefore can not inform you that you are not who you think you are, but are actually a copy of a very angry dead person who feels ripped off by science!

Originally Posted by DocDoom

At first glance the idea of instant teleportation might seem like a great idea, but I've always opted that if it ever does exist I will not be using it. The reason being that the only way I see this to be a possible thing (without folding space) would be to literally take down a full record (I'm talking on a molecular level) of how you are put together. Then the original would be recreated in the location it was meant to end up. For the new you that just appeared in the other teleporter, you would be none the wiser to the fact that you were actually a clone, with all of the original memories of your former model (who by the way was eviscerated by a teleportation device). The worst part is there is absolutely no way to know if this would be what was happening! The reason being that dead men really do tell no tales, and therefore can not inform you that you are not who you think you are, but are actually a copy of a very angry dead person who feels ripped off by science!

Believe it or not, when I read the thread title (but before reading your post) that's exactly what I was thinking! Being a long-time sci-fi junkie probably had a lot to do that. But you're absolutely right - that's how the "classic" Star Trek form of teleportation works, and that's exactly the thing to be afraid of. Though if there was a another technology for teleportation that doesn't involve molecular breakdown I'd be up for it. Something like mini wormholes.

Do you know any teleportation stories (can be just a short story) that look at this very concern? You'd think someone had to have written it in the entire history of sci-fi. The closest thing that comes to my mind is a novel by Thomas Disch - Echo Round His Bones. Though in that story, the original isn't outright destroyed but turned into some kind of transdimensional ghost. The main character goes through a routine teleportation only to find himself in a world of ghosts - all "split" from their originals, and being unable to interact with the real world.

Of course, there are lots of other cautionary stories of teleportation gone wrong for other reasons. "The Fly" and various episodes of "Star Trek" probably being the best known examples. When I saw "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" as a kid, that early teleportation accident scene freaked me out and gave me nightmares *shudder* Stephen King's short story "The Jaunt" is a great teleportation horror story. I won't spoil what goes wrong, but by comparison instant molecular destruction is a blessing.

I've also given this issue some thought. The only reason I could see this bothering anyone, assuming the technology is 100% safe and creates a perfect replica and never fails to destroy the original, is for religious reasons. "Do I still have a soul if I died and was reproduced?" or "Is my soul in the original only?".
I'm an atheist so these questions don't trouble me in the least. So long as all my neurons end up in the right place and I have all my memories, thought patterns, scars etc. in place I'll use the tech repeatedly.

Imagine a Battlestar Galactica scenario where a copy of your brain is made every second. Upon your death, you get a new body but the same personality and memories. Would you decline eternal life because of fears about your soul?
Once you accept that a human is just a complex computer you have a lot less qualms about copying the Hard Drive once you know how to make a new machine. If it's indistinguishable from you in everyway, then in IS you regardless of metaphysics.

Plus I'm not sure that your way is the only way. Teleportation as it was described in Star Trek may not be achievable - scanning every molecule to then destroy them and reproduce them would require a lot of precision, energy and space. How large of a hard drive do you need to keep trillions of individual atom's positions?
The new way is through quantum entanglement, where you can get the entangled atoms to take on the exact properties of the original, right down the the spin of the atom. Would one molecule "becoming" another, even though the original is destroyed (it does so naturally) still a form of death for the original? I would think it's more akin to a form of translocation where you shift your original to a new spot as is.

Just my 2 cents

Identity of self is a very fragile thing for humans, far more-so than we like to think. As science progresses over the next few centuries ( assuming it doesn't kill us ), there are going to be some very interesting ethical debates arise.

I have tried this with my pet cat and it did not work, I think the computer scan missed some quarks in scanning the cat died sadly ;)

Originally Posted by Sephiroth7

The only reason I could see this bothering anyone, assuming the technology is 100% safe and creates a perfect replica and never fails to destroy the original, is for religious reasons. "Do I still have a soul if I died and was reproduced?" or "Is my soul in the original only?"

I think you're partially missing what I meant originally. Look at it in this timeline:

You step into teleporter and it scans you > You're destroyed (therefore YOU are dead now) > a new you is formed with all your former memories (oblivious to the fact that he was actually just born)

For related movies I'd say The Prestige (hugh jackman talks about not ever knowing if he's going to be the clone or the original), Sixth Day, and maybe willy wonka xP

Originally Posted by Swedor

I have tried this with my pet cat and it did not work, I think the computer scan missed some quarks in scanning the cat died sadly ;)

You didn't name it schrodinger did you? If you did it's both alive and dead until you look inside the transporter

Originally Posted by DocDoom

I think you're partially missing what I meant originally. Look at it in this timeline:

You step into teleporter and it scans you > You're destroyed (therefore YOU are dead now) > a new you is formed with all your former memories (oblivious to the fact that he was actually just born)

For related movies I'd say The Prestige (hugh jackman talks about not ever knowing if he's going to be the clone or the original), Sixth Day, and maybe willy wonka xP

I LOVED that movie!

I understood what you meant, but the question is why does it matter? the "original" dead man you spoke of is not pissed, he's gone - he has no thoughts or feelings - more than that for all practical purposes he's still alive! You imply that he's a different person that went through torture and was simply replaced by a prior version of himself, but in actuality the clone starts exactly where the original ended. If the clone is not pissed then neither was original at his "last" moments.

Let's enter philosophy mode: Say there's an Alien out there that's very interested in you and it's completely undetected by anyone. Every night it comes into your room, clones you perfectly and destroys the original immediately - there are never 2 of you at any given moment. This has happened every night for a year, but you have no knowledge of it and neither does anyone on the planet. The clone is always perfect in every single way right down to the telomeres. When I inform you of these events, do you feel somehow diminished? Your lifespan is unchanged, your memories and personality are unchanged - even though you're brand new you're indistinguishable from the original. You'll live out the rest of your life exactly as the original would have right down to the millisecond of your death, you'll feel the same emotions, make the same decisions. You're not "a clone" anymore, you ARE the original now.
I know that upon learning it it might have a deep psychological effect, but that's another tangent. That has a lot more to do with perception and metaphysics that with reality.
Outside of objective reality there's a thought process that attributes more to a person than just the sum of their parts - like there's something precious you're born with that a clone won't have. That's something i personally don't believe in.

Now if the clone survives we have a whole other problem

see the problem is I would then be aware that tonight I will die, the new me will not be me, it will be a copy. Yes it will have all my memories, but I will still die. This means that after today I will be out of time, and my clone will get a day to live. That would be the thing that scares me about teleporters. I understand in the grand scheme of things everything is fine, but unless you believe in the idea of a soul and thing that soul jumps from one body to the other, the science would point towards a clone, and a dead original. Another way to look at it would be if you were hit by a bus right now and died. You are gone, and have no more time on this world to enjoy the relationships you've made with the people around you. But in that instant a clone is made of you who has the same memories right up until the second you died, but instead wakes up thinking he lived. His/Her existence does not make you any less gone, it only makes everyone oblivious to the fact that you are dead, and they are now carrying on their relationships with a copy of you.

Not sure how much thought I've given to this, but it seems that if folding space isn't the method of choice, then you are left with a philosophical question about what is a human being's essence. If you believe in a soul, then the idea of cloning (and subsequently destroying the original) to transport is pretty abhorrent. If not, then I don't see the problem unless maybe it was wasteful energy wise & energy conservation is still a concern.

I would think, though, its gonna come down to perception and whether we know how it works. If we develop the technology ourselves, then there would be no escaping discussing the ethics of the situation. If the technology was simply handed to us from an alien source and we simply knew it worked (but not the nitty gritty of its mechanics), then the general population wouldn't care any more than the general population tries to understand x-rays, airplanes or internal combustion engines.

Its definitely an interesting question, though. Being aware of a death/rebirth cycle for transport would definitely be hard to wrap your brain around. Plus, who or what would prevent mass clone armies or unintended copies? Not that I would mind my own personal slave harem of Jewel Staite(s) :D